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I accepted the position I was offered in Russia.  It will be very challenging but I think I will learn a lot.  

My friend has already lined up a music teacher there for me to be able to develop those God-given musical talents I was never able to  due to my mother's prejudices against women.  

I am very excited to be moving from such a small country to one that has much more space to enjoy the great outdoors.    

by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:08:53 PM EST
My friend has already lined up a music teacher there for me to be able to develop those God-given musical talents I was never able to  due to my mother's prejudices against women.

It's quotes like that that make me suspect you're a three hundred and fifty pound trucker called Chuck. ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh, were you not here when I posted that I had found out that I had aced a music test when I was a child, and that my music examiner had suspected that I had perfect pitch?  I only found out recently that both the examiner and my music teacher at the time had strongly encouraged my mother to concentrate on my musical education, because I had really done well in the exam.  I had also won a music festival for my age group that year.

My mother decided against this, and instead got me a new teacher who emphasized popular music tunes, and I quickly lost interest in learning music.  

My mother thought that music wasn't a good career choice for a woman -me.  

by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:20:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I caught the perfect pitch bit but not the parental antipathy bit the other night.

I had the opposite situation, the somewhat pushy mother, so ended singing all over the place.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:26:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
my mother wasn't pushy that way.

I was quite upset when I found out about it because I thought I had done really badly in music. There were all these parental discussions after that music exam, and I assumed it was because I had done something bad.

So, it took a lot of guts for me to get myself tested for pitch this week.  My friend was very kind and kept pushing me to go, but I felt nauseous during the whole thing because of those feelings from childhood.

It's kind of ironic that I was chided for bragging about this, when in fact, I had to overcome a lot of bad programming to take another stab at music.  

by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I forgot to mention, there was the fact that I had done much better than my older brother, who was studying music at the same school.

That was at the end of grade 3 in regular school, and my teachers wanted me to skip grade 4.

Both my brother and I had skipped grade 2, but my brother hadn't skipped grade 4.

My mother also turned them down about that.  She said I would be 2 years younger than everyone else, and that would be too much of a difference.  

Instead I learned a lot of polkas :-)  

by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The sad thing is that my brother died recently.

My mother invested much more in him than in me, so we are not on very good terms but I am her only surviving child.  

by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
he was 6 foot 7 inches tall (2 metres).  My father - 6 foot 4, my mother, 5 foot 10, my sister 5 foot 11, my grand-father 6 foot 4, (born in 1892)  my grand-mother 5 foot 11

my university roommate (female) 6 foot 3

my tallest boyfriend 6 foot 10

my shortest boyfriend (adult)  5 foot 7

by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 05:09:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah poor you - a victim again - but never mind, it doesn't seem to have inhibited your propensity to talk about yourself.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 04:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pity about your career choice, Ted; you'd have made a fine psychiatrist of the Attila School.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 04:50:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sound like it could have been a lot of fun :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 08:44:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
how many more suicides would you then be responsible for?
by zoe on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 09:16:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"more" ?  tut tut. LEP will be telling YOU off for such innuendo.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 03:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Too bad you can't withdraw comments, Ted. Yours was quite unnecessary and would be a good candidate for withdrawal. And a shrink might even conclude it was a bit of projection.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 05:52:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 I've no time for most "shrinks", especially the Freudian flavour who sometimes use the acccusation of "projection" as a way of trying to undermine criticism. Unfortunately belief in their discredited theories is still pretty widespread in the general culture.

Some people deserve respectful attention and consideration, and some people are just attention-seeking irritants, who, as I said, clearly aren't put off by a few critical comments. Like Jerome, I've no time for mmmm for the reasons I gave in the comment following his critical comment on mmmm in the thursday open thread. I think your gallantry deserves better causes.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 08:41:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think Jerome will be very happy to be associated with you, Ted.

Jerome is firstly a very intelligent man, who feels he has a responsibility to his family and to others to improve the world in the only way he knows how.

He is a loving father and husband, a good friend, and a sociable person.

He sometimes get irritable, but is not a nasty person.

In all of these ways, he differs from you.  It's really too bad that even living in Nice hasn't been able to soften your misanthropism.  I feel sorry for anyone who comes into contact with you, including yourself.    

by zoe on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 09:15:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"I don't think Jerome will be very happy to be associated with you, Ted."

Ah - try to divide the opposition.

That's a matter for him in general, but, unfortuntely for you, relevant to this matter, he chose to associate himself with my main criticism of you - giving it a 4.

Jerome is firstly a very intelligent man, who feels he has a responsibility to his family and to others to improve the world in the only way he knows how.

He is a loving father and husband, a good friend, and a sociable person.

He sometimes get irritable, but is not a nasty person.

In all of these ways, he differs from you.

Yes he is a very intelligent, nice guy, so even I was surprised when he criticised you so scornfully - not many people (apart from lying neolib ideologues) make him THAT annoyed - but I am not surprised that it was YOU he criticised like that.

As to the rest, you know almost nothing about me and I couldn't care less about your uninformed opinion.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 05:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ted, if you find that someone irritates you can ignore them, which I would recommend as the best policy. Your comment was only meant to hurt; to hurt someone who was having no contact with you at the time.
When mmmm stated that she had a new job in Russia The following five ET members gave her a recommendation; essentially a tip of the hat:LEP, That Brit Guy, Mill Man, metavision and Solveig. In addition the following ET'ers were having some sort of conversation with mmmm: ceebs, LEP, poemless, wahataboutbob and Sven Triloqvist.
So, not only was your comment quite mean to mmmm, it was quite disrespectful to those who were in contact with her at the time. Now, perhaps you think we're all idiots; you're perfectly free to think that and even say so. But if people start to express their primitive emotional feelings, on this site, without any restraint, ET will be greatly damaged. I love this site and I don't want to see it damaged.
That's all I want to say for the moment.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 09:19:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok, since you chose to continue with this - I was sarcastic, as she had been about Jerome, e.g. after he had criticised her (not something he does often) on thurs, she wrote :

"oh God, watch out.  I once wrote Jèrôme instead of Jérôme and had to see a therapist because of the response I got from J."

by mmmm )

 I also noted the fact that she was evidently not inhibited from going on commenting and talking about herself. You are making a mountain out of a molehill and your argument to justify this is now getting - um - to be polite - tenuous.

 In addition the following ET'ers were having some sort of conversation with mmmm: ceebs, LEP, poemless, wahataboutbob and Sven Triloqvist.
So, not only was your comment quite mean to mmmm, it was quite disrespectful to those who were in contact with her at the time.

 If somebody else is highly critical of someone I'm talking to I don't consider this to be showing a lack of respect for me, that's their opinion and they're entitled to it. If I thought they were wrong or unfair, etc. I'd say so - I've even defended American libertarians here :-) I wouldn't jump on my high horse and say - "You are being disrepectful to me." Other people were having conversations with mmmm before Jerome said to her:

... Therefore your complaints about the site, and specifically about the supposed lack of respect you are shown, are just a big farce.

Feel free to continue to make a fool of yourself. You mostly amuse me, now.

Thurs... open thread.

Was he being disrespectful to those others ?  No, of course not. Others have their own opinions, and he is entitled to his, even quite strongly stated.

As you can see, she's quite capable of speaking for herself; with the kind of peronal attack I just find silly (based as it is on ignorance), as I noted in the reply to metavision, which she had been criticised for by whataboutbob on Mon.  Maybe you should have just left her to do that.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 05:03:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know Ted, I know you; I met you in person. We're cordial with each other and I have no animosity toward you. I enjoy most of your writings here and when I do enjoy one, I tell you. I felt your attack on mmmm Saturday morning was inappropriate, particularly as to timing. And I told you.
I don't know mmmm, have never met her, and don't know anyone here who has met her. For all I know she could be a 17 year old kid in Iowa having fun with us "old farts" here in Europe. But she sure has brought out a lot of emotion in many of us here. So perhaps it would be useful to look at her as kind of a Tarot card that rg was talking about yesterday, and who knows, maybe we all could learn something about ourselves from this experience.
Peace, LEP


Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 06:38:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ted, this is UNACCEPTABLE.  Just like the insulting tirade against mmmm the other evening, even if Jerome considered it useful for his annoyance and no FP noticed it.  I did.

I hope we all are capable of scrolling down through comments that do not interest us, without having to start hurtful, personal attacks.  We all have our frustrations and we need to direct them at the source, not at random.

No lecture will undo the harm done and you have better things to do.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 09:52:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You might consider WHY Jerome was annoyed (not that common as far as I've noticed) and why whataboutbob felt it necessary to say this on Monday:

"To mmmm - an observation: it appears to me that often when somebody has a different opinion from you, you then start to personally attack them. We have talked about this issue in generally around ET a lot - this kind of bebavior is not okay in this community...I did not hear Ted personally attacking you - you on the other hand did definitely get personal with Ted. Please stop doing this.

"We all have our frustrations and we need to direct them at the source, not at random."

As with LEP and "projection", there's no need for the shrink-speak - there's no frustation - exasperation - yes :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 04:07:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
6 ft., Canadian?  You might be on to something there...  :)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:23:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
no, 6 foot one inch approximately, 186 cm exactly.  

And, as far as I know, there are female Canadians.  

If anyone wants me to prove it, I am only an hour from Bob by train, and am willing to stop in Winterthur for coffee on my way to Munich on Sunday.  

by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:27:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And, as far as I know, there are female Canadians.  

Now that just sounds too far-fetched ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:38:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
17,000,000 drag queens?
by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can only speak from experience ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:51:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
where did you go, a mining town in the Yukon?
by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I used to share a house with a Canadian, an odd time was had by all.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 05:02:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you've piqued my curiosity.

please provide more details.

by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 05:06:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh he was a Large man with a taste for paintball and explosives who had a sister who looked almost as male as he did. his tennants were me and a hippy artist who both refused to take him seriously which drove him to distraction at times.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 05:14:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we are odd, I'll grant you that.  
by zoe on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 10:06:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
hi mmmm, thanks for the Winterthur coffee invite. But - it will have to be another time, as I am not moving around too well right now. That said, congratulations on your Russian job...when do you go there?

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 03:18:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks Bob.  I have to wait on the visa.  
by zoe on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 10:05:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you tell us what you'll do if it's not classified.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it's computer security for an international corporation.
by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:22:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm just a hacker whose intentions are good, Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

That's my theme song

by zoe on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wonderful! I love moralistic subversion. I'm proud to be an honorary member of a top-level club on the basis of my past media banditry. I am really amazed sometimes at what they can achieve. But then some of the best sheriffs in the Old West were former gunslingers. Samurai.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 07:07:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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