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The difference is that Argentina was not a major export market for much of the rest of the world.

I'm amazed that people continue to ignore this elephant-sized fact. This country is going to suffer because of the credit and overconsumption binge, not because the economy produces nothing of value. Yet I continually see comments (not from redstar necessarily) that either implicitly or explicitly claim that the US "makes nothing."

The medium term is what makes or breaks the US. When our standard of living is reduced to that of Western Europe (or lower), are we still going to put half of our national treasure into the military? If so, we're doomed. If not, and that money goes into education and other social goods, our long term prospects look on par or better than Europe's due to our relative isolation from the coming volatility in Asia and better placement to exploit alternative energy.

Until that gets sorted out (nuke the planet, or roll back to regional military power), each forthcoming presidential election will be considered "the most important in history."

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Aug 8th, 2007 at 06:18:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is a good point. It is far from true that the US no longer makes anything, and in fact there is a lower limit to how far things can go down because of superior US position in IT, MedTech and so forth. In this way, there's really no way that the armageddon bottom falls out, but there will be some significant pain, no doubt, and given how the US political economy is structured the lower you are on the SES scale the more you're going to suffer.

In any event, the Argentina crisis turned out relatively ok, and many previously shuttered manufacturers re-opened when the Austral dumped the USD peg and became competitive with Brazilian and Uruguayan suppliers. In some cases, the plants were taken over by workers, also a good thing.

For my part, the militarism will end up being the biggest problem, and given the upcoming correction, the likely source of future unrest.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Wed Aug 8th, 2007 at 06:26:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the lower you are on the SES scale the more you're going to suffer

Yes, and while the European safety net really helps it won't ultimately stem the tide of the same trends. Your job skills are an increasing component of your future prospects with country of birth rapidly declining in importance. The middle class will continue to shrink as the number of people required to run the world economy declines. I don't know that dwindling energy supplies necessarily change that, either, I think the world economy will simply shrink. The difference for the poor will probably be having to work in the fields rather than going to the food bank. Those employed in manufacture will be able to scrape by on a bare urban lifestyle, while current tech/knowledge workers will occupy the middle class. Then the usual parasites on top. Essentially everyone moves down a half or full step on the ladder, with the poorest in the 3rd world disappearing. For my own prospects, I might have to be flexible enough to work in SE Asia for a while.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Aug 8th, 2007 at 07:11:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When our standard of living is reduced to that of Western Europe (or lower)

You're being sarcastic, right? Or are you talking GDP?


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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 12:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not sure I follow? I believe average per capita income for western European countries is a bit lower than the US, with several coming in above.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 02:27:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As always, median would be a more useful indicator.

We don't have a huge concentration of billionaires to skew the mean, but we do have - at least we used to have  - a much less extreme income distribution curve.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 07:41:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was trying to avoid that particular discussion. What is important is the perception of standard of living of US citizens - how will they react when the perception is that they're significantly worse off than Europeans. I noted the two ultimate options.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 09:28:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, that's what I thought, thanks for clarifying.

(I was trying to avoid the "GDP"-"standard of living"-"measurements"-"perception"-"quality of life"-"damnyankee"-"oldeurope" discussion as well. No good can come of that. Sorry if I came across as snarky! :))

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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 04:54:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Err sorry, yes I meant GDP.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 02:28:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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