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http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2007/08/great-market-qu.html


    "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."
    -- John Maynard Keynes

    "The only thing that can console one for being poor is extravagance."
    -- Oscar Wilde

    "It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness; poverty and wealth have both failed."
    -- Kin Hubbard

    "The key to making money in stocks is not to get scared out of them."
    -- Peter Lynch

    "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."
    -- JP Getty

    "You try to be greedy when others are fearful, and fearful when others are greedy."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing."
    -- Oscar Wilde

    "Do you know the only thing that gives me pleasure? It is to see my dividends coming in."
    -- John D. Rockefeller

    "A gold miner is a liar standing beside a hole in the ground."
    -- Mark Twain

    "There was a time when a fool and his money were soon parted, but now it happens to everybody."
    -- Adlai Stevenson

    "It is generally agreed that casinos should, in the public interest, be inaccessible and expensive. And perhaps the same is true of Stock Exchanges."
    -- John Maynard Keynes

    "The safe way to double your money is to fold it over once and put it in your pocket. "
    -- Frank Hubbard

    "Save a little money each month and at the end of the year you'll be surprised at how little you have."
    -- Ernest Haskins

(emphasis on John Maynard Keynes mine)

by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:01:53 PM EST
After investing on my own for about 7 years now I've learned several things. Your first Keynes quote sums it up.

  1. My combination of ecological/psychological doomerism and consideration of "sustainable" economic metrics (ie, not buying property back in 2001 because I already knew it was a bubble then) has cost me financially, as the market is a group psychological process and little else (ie, not in any way connected to my way of thinking, emotional or analytical).

  2. I don't have the financial muscle or insider knowledge to beat the market. The few areas where I can beat the street's common knowledge, such as going long in oil, still didn't work for me - you need a lot of money to buy actual oil contracts, and ETFs like USO are continually dropping vs. the spot price due to market contango. That outcome in particular has really killed my interest in the game of investing.

  3. The spots in which I've beat the market were effectively dartboard buys/sells. Over the long run, though, those moves have cost me almost as much as they have made me.

As a result there are only a few things I am willing to do now:

  1. buy CDs / insured bonds.
  2. basic mutual fund plays, such as taking advantage of the bull market and declining dollar buy investing in funds that buy Euro based shares over the past few years
  3. Currency trading (more to lower my overall risk vs. inflating fiat currencies and general dollar weakness than speculation).

With higher market volatility and a bear market on the way, my interest in buying individual stocks or even mutual funds (beyond bond funds) is pretty much zero.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:58:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
as the market is a group psychological process

The market is also about information. If you're not inside the inner loop, you won't get that information ahead of time.

Specifically it's about digested information. Without gossip, news, and good live analysis tools, you're already behind the professionals, and unlikely ever to catch up.

It was interesting looking at wchurchill's posts, because although we mostly disagreed with him politically, he was an excellent presenter of Wall St's common wisdom. His predictions also seemed to be more accurate than anyone else's on here.

In practical terms, it's only possible to make accurate predictions if you can enter the mindspace of the psychological process that drives the markets.

Since most of us assume that market processes are mostly insane, and clearly so, we're predictively disadvantaged in the short and medium term. Suspension of disbelief seems to be a useful skill which may be in short supply around here.

So even though we can see an approaching train wreck from far enough away to be able to say 'Wtf are these people doing?', it's very hard to turn that into an effective investment strategy.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:16:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In Europe if you want to do trading as a consumer you have cheap access to call and put options, they're called "warrants". They're leveraged and thus more risky than their underlying stock since you're much more likely to loose all your position.

My employer BNP Paribas markets warrants on various Brent futures, currently September 2007 to June 2008, many strikes/call/put. There are also gold, silver, housing indexes, indexes, stocks, etc...

It's curious because in the USA these products are not marketed at all, cultural thing?

Disclaimer: my wage comes in part from those warrants sales, and I personally own a few Brent warrants.

by Laurent GUERBY on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 02:00:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The quote of Warren Buffett is pretty instructive, not just in the "buy low sell high" way. It is a basic investment realization that market trends are determined not so much by actual prospects of economy, but of perceptions thereof. Surely, perceptions do "neurolinguistically" define much of economic reality - but with limits. Anyway, playing with human perceptions and impulses is frequently easier than playing with economic data.

In particular, fear and greed (as in Buffett's quote) determine most jitters of financial indices. Those market cycles tell more about human patterns of greed and fear than about "inherent" economic structures. I guess American cycles of greed and fear are different from Chinese or other ones - hedge fund modelists may know them all very well. At least those empirically determinable from the statistics up till now.

The flux of capital into asset markets was increasing faster than ever in America, China and other markets. Shares rose not so much because of better buisiness performance (though it is much easier to perform when the whole economy enjoys so much cash Viagra), but just because so many new greedy entrants in Americas, China and the rest of Asia and the world. The common wisdom was to "invest" whenever you have spare cash - and to borrow and invest more is you dare "as a man".

But now perhaps comes inevitable interaction with reality of cash flow sustainability. Still, this year will see a lot of game of fear and greed in the markets. Some ejaculation (if you pardon me) of the dear stiff global economy must be inevitable eventually, but the trigger will most likely be some rational measure to curb financial follies. Libertarian apologists would blame the rational "socialists" or "protectionists", never minding that the absurd sensitivity of the saturated markets is wholly thanks to the "supply" incentives to fuel cash from everywhere into one or few markets.

by das monde on Sat Aug 11th, 2007 at 12:52:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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