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Hi Bob!

What would you like to read about?  I'm currently reading Barbarians by Terry Jones (yes, the Python!)

From the link:

We think we know all about the Romans, don't we? They gave us sophisticated road systems, chariots and the modern-day calendar, not to mention civilized society. And of course, they had to contend with barbarian hordes who continually threatened the peace, safety and prosperity of their Empire. But is this really true? Accompanying a major new BBC2 series, "Terry Jones' Barbarians" takes a completely fresh approach to Roman history. Not only does it offer us the chance to see the Romans from a non-Roman perspective, it also reveals that most of those written off by the Romans as uncivilized, savage and barbaric were in fact organized, motivated and intelligent groups of people, with no intentions of overthrowing Rome and plundering its Empire. This original and fascinating study does away with the propaganda and opens our eyes to who really established the civilized world. Delving deep into history, Terry Jones and Alan Ereira uncover the impressive cultural and technological achievements of the Celts, Goths, Persians and Vandals. If you thought that highly developed religious philosophy and legal systems based on respect were Roman inventions, then think again. Far from civilizing the societies they conquered, the Romans often destroyed much of what they found. In this absorbing book, Terry and Alan travel through 700 years of history on three continents, bringing wit, irreverence, passion and the very latest scholarship to transform our view of the legacy of the Roman Empire and the creation of the modern world. 'Jones laces the latest academic research with his own increasingly avuncular humour. Who says history can't be fun? In the hands of Professor Jones, how could it be anything else?'

I'm seeing all kindsa parallels with the present day--

There have been diaries about France, about Sarkozy I mean, but yeah...lotsa US readers, so I thought--how about a quiz to stimulate another ripple starting from Europe.  But first, Europe!

Right, here are the questions (it's very easy to find the answers--otherwise I couldn't have built the quiz!  But worth guessing first--if any ideas come to mind.)  I'll give answers if anyone wants them or can't find them.  There's a picture clue for each question.  Oh, and I knew the answer to none of 'em!

What is the name of and where is

1) Europe's highest mountain?

2) Its deepest canyon?

3) Longest river?

4) Most powerful waterfall?

5) Largest glacier?

6) Most westerly point?

Why is there a contradiction between the answers to questions 4) and 6)?

7) Northernmost point?

8) 7) Largest lake?

heh....slow day at work!  Forgive me, bob and congrats on that new job situation!--

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 09:13:10 AM EST
Elbrus, Russia (Caucasus): 18,510 feet / 5642 meters for the Mountain

and  have you read his book Medieval lives?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 09:25:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Correct for number 1!

I'm halfway through Medieval lives.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 09:31:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nice introductory article, written by Terry Jones:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1143405,00.html

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 09:34:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and both have matching TV series.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 10:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Glad I lurked before going to bed.  I've just ordered Medieval Lives AND Who Murdered Chaucer.  So much to look forward to, 640 pages altogether.

On the main subject, maybe we could suggest topics that we'd like to see addressed in diaries, or there could be threads that begin with a question such as "how good are public services (postal, libraries, street cleaning, etc.) in your area?"  Or "what do you think are popular misconceptions about Brits/French/Poles/etc.?"  For instance, I'm stumped as to why the Germans I know have the idea that Americans read very little.  But the books in Germany are SO expensive, and it seems harder to find bookstores.  My husband was amazed at the number of bookstores he saw when he first came here.

Just an idea.  

Karen in Austin

Thence comes our true nobility by grace, It was not willed us with our rank and place. Chaucer

by Wife of Bath (bakerswife13@yahoo.com) on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:54:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi rg! (Thanks!) - And nice quiz!! (Uh, I'll get back to you with some answers...)

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!
by whataboutbob on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 09:34:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey! (As an aside)...I wonder if that's where Dylan got his verse, "the pump don't work cause the Vandal stole the handle..."

Damn Vandals. Where were the Vandals located in Europe, anyway??

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!

by whataboutbob on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 10:10:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Where did they come from?

Related to the Goths, apparently, who unleashed themselves on Europe ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 10:34:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dem vandals who stole the handles...(my emphasis):

vandal  
1663, "willful destroyer of what is beautiful or venerable," from Vandals, name of Gmc. tribe that sacked Rome, 455, under Genseric, from L. Vandalus (pl. Vandali), from the tribe's name for itself (O.E. Wendlas), from P.Gmc. *Wandal- "Wanderer."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=vandal

And boy did they wand.  (Follow the blue line!)

But were the vandals vandals?

The Sack of Rome

(My emphasis)

In 455, the Vandal king Geiseric sailed his powerful fleet from the capital in Carthage, up the Tiber, finally sacking Rome. The murder and usurption of the previous Emperor Valentinian III by Petronius Maximus that same year was seen by Geiseric as an invalidation of his 442 peace treaty with Valentinian.

Upon the Vandal arrival, according to the chronicler Prosper, Pope Leo I implored Geiseric not to destroy the ancient city or murder its inhabitants. Geiseric agreed and the gates of Rome were thrown open to him and his men. Maximus, who fled rather than fight the Vandal warlord, was killed by a Roman mob outside the city.

It is accepted that Geiseric looted great amounts of treasure from the city, and also took the Empress Licinia Eudoxia, Valentinian's widow, and her daughters hostage. One of these daughters was Eudocia, who was later to marry Geiseric's son Huneric.

There is, however, some debate over the severity of the Vandal sack. The sack of 455 is generally seen by historians as being more thorough than the Visigothic sack of 410, because the Vandals plundered Rome for fourteen days whereas the Visigoths spent only three in the city.

The cause of most controversy, however, is the claim that the sack was relatively 'clean', in that there was little murder and violence, and the Vandals did not burn the buildings of the city. This interpretation seems to stem from Prosper's claim that Leo the Great managed to persuade Geiseric to refrain from violence.

However, Victor of Vita records how many[citation needed] shiploads of captives arrived in Africa from Rome, with the purpose of being sold into slavery. Similarly, the Byzantine historian Procopius reports how at least one church was burnt down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(455)

Anyway, who decided that the word for a vandal should be "vandal"?  Someone in Europe (I guess) after the Renaissance--they admired the Romans so the Huns and Vandals were given a big paint job with the pugly brush (Or so I've read--I is no historian!)

(a  v e e e e e r y  slow day at work):

So what happened to them?

The End of The Vandals

Gelimer (original form Geilamir, 480-553), King of the Vandals and Alans from 530 to 534, was the last ruler of the North African Kingdom of the Vandals. He became ruler in 530 after deposing his cousin Hilderic, who had angered the Vandal nobility by converting to Catholicism. Most of the Vandals at this time being fiercely devoted to Arian Christianity.

The eastern Roman Emperor Justinian I, who had supported Hilderic, soon declared war on the Vandals, ostensibly to restore Hilderic but more likely to restore North Africa to the Roman Empire. In June 533, Justinian sent an expeditionary force commanded by Belisarius which finally reached Africa in the beginning of September. Meanwhile in Sardinia which formed part of the Vandal domain, Goddas, a Visigoth, whom Gelimer had sent to collect a tax, began to treat with Justinian as an independent sovereign. Gelimer ignorant or contemptuous of Justinian's plans sent a large army comprised of most of the available army in Africa under his brother Tzazo to crush the rebellion meaning that the landing of Belisarius was entirely unopposed.[1]

On landing Belisarius immediately marched for Carthage finally meeting resistance on the 13th of September when he was confronted by Gelimer at Ad Decimium, 10 miles from Carthage. Although outnumbered 11,000 to 17,000 the battle was evenly fought by the Vandals until Gelimer's brother Ammatas was killed at which time Gelimer lost heart and fled. On the 14th of September 533, Belisarius entered Carthage and ate the feast prepared for Gelimer's in his palace. Belisarius, however, was too late to save the life of Hilderic, who had been slain by Gelimer's orders as soon as the news came of the landing of the imperial army.

The Vandals however were not beaten and on the return of Tzazo from Sardinia, Gelimer again met Belisarius in battle this time at a place about 20 miles from Carthage, called Ticameron. (December 533). This battle was far more stubbornly contested than that of Ad Decimum, but it ended in the utter rout of the Vandals and the flight of Gelimer.

Finally in March 534, realizing he had no chance of regaining his kingdom, Gelimer surrendered to Belisarius and accepted the Romans' offer of vast estates in Galatia where he lived to be an old man. He achieved some degree of anecdotal fame, according to Byzantine chronicles, by crying out the verse from Ecclesiastes, 'Vanity of vanities, all is vanity,' which is mentioned in the works of Gibbon and Fielding.

After Gelimer's defeat the Vandals disappear from history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelimer

Cough cough cough!  

(I'm thinking: "Well, at least it's about Europe!")

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 11:04:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, I find it interesting!! And it IS about Europe!! (Good show, mate!)

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!
by whataboutbob on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 11:43:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Number two is Verdon, has to be.
by redstar on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 11:03:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 11:05:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(Further east)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 11:07:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is my turf!

  1. Tara canyon (Montenegro)

  2. Depends where Europe "ends"... Either the Danube (Donau) or Volga

  3. Dettifoss (Iceland)

  4. Most people say North Cape (Norway) but probably not true

How well am I doing?
by Nomad on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 12:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
2 yes!
3 The Volga, yes! (I'm thinking of Europe-the-continent--as per the picture)
4 yes! Triple marks for that--and for a special special bonus: what is the highest waterfall?  Here's a pic

6 That's the not the answer I have, but the answer (that I have--could be wrong!) has the word "cape" in it

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 12:42:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's a more detailed map--a clue to number 6 (and its relation to number 4.)



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 12:56:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. Aletschgletscher in Switzerland. Absolutely stunning panorama...
  2. Google tells it's Cabo da Roca in Portugal, if one considers only continental Europe. Contradiction to 4 is the fact the on Iceland there's a point more in the west. As usual, Wikipedia has a good writeup on the extreme points of europe ..
  3. I googled it but I'll leave it upon somebody who actually knows it ... ;)
by srutis on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 02:09:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
5 yes!
6 yes and yes!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 02:28:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aletschgletscher in Switzerland. Absolutely stunning panorama...

When I was in Brig over a decade ago, in the end it didn't fit into my time. I regret it ever since -- the next time I get there, maybe global warming will have done to it what it did to the glacier under the Großglockner in Austria...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 06:17:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. I'd guess Novaya Zelmya, or Spitzbergen if that is counted.

  2. Lake Ladoga, in Russia.

Re 1), in retrospect it's funny that in commie times, we learn in school that the Mont Blanc is highest... even though we learnt that the Volga is the longest and the Danube only second.

Re 6) vs. 4), the Wiki page you took it from has no contradiction: they say mainland Europe for 6).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 06:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd guess Novaya Zelmya

Heh, that's Easternmost...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 06:23:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
8 Lake Ladoga -- yes!

And the northernmost point, from what I've read, is....

Extreme points of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cape Fligely, Rudolf Island, Franz Josef Land, Russia (81° 48′ 24″ N)[1]


Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 06:38:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They do, but I liked the idea that "the most westerly point in europe" wasn't stated.

What is it?

(I assume it's the most westerly point of Iceland, but I don't know the name of such a place.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 06:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Extreme points of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Westernmost point -- Monchique Islet (31º 16' 24″ W), west of Fajã Grande, Flores Island, Azores, Portugal[3]

...Europe, excluding remote islands
Westernmost point -- Bjargtangar, Iceland(24° 32′ 03″ W) [5]



*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 09:24:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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