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I don't see cap and trade ever working, and I'm a sceptic in relation to carbon capture.

But otherwise it goes to reinforce my long held view (reinforced by a good few years' experience working with both)that Shell is an oil company that produces profits, and BP a profits company that produces oil.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 07:53:48 PM EST
as a long time Shell shareholder I'd beg to differ.  They've been awful compared to Exxon the last 15 years.
by HiD on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 05:25:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I presume you are looking at it from the point of view of investment returns. If so, I rest my case: Exxon's record speaks for itself.  

I did not say that I found Shell to be efficient, streamlined or particularly good at producing oil.

I did find that I never had a problem (as Director of Compliance & Market Supervision at IPE) with them, and I never had anything else with BP.

The culture at Shell I encountered (when I could penetrate the bureaucracy) was based upon a core purpose of producing & refining oil: the culture I encountered at BP was based upon a purpose of producing & refining shareholder  value.

I never ran into Exxon , cos they never really went near IPE.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 05:42:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
my short version

Shell -- bureaucratic, fragmented and rather hopeless.  Rather fight internally than with the rest of us.
BP -- Vitol with a better credit rating.
Exxon -- is it 1950 yet?

All I was saying is Shell's share price just keep waving from $40--$65-70 (then recently to $85) since the mid 90's.  Meanwhile Exxon has gone up several factors.  Shell has just been awful at creating shareholder value.

by HiD on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 04:04:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I prefer your version. Vitol? Marc Rich, surely?

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 06:08:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Vitol was much sleazier than the MR guys.  Now the MR spinoffs were getting pretty close to the bottom of the bbl.  (Trafigura eg).
by HiD on Mon Jan 28th, 2008 at 04:54:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What about Chevron, Conoco and Total?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 07:27:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
conoco was a small company when I was in the mix.  They've merged with Phillips and bought up some independent refiners since.

Total was a minor European outfit as well.  They've merged with Elf and Petrofina since.

Chevron -- I better take the 5th.

by HiD on Mon Jan 28th, 2008 at 04:52:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oilwatchdog:  USGAO: 1997-2007 Oil Mergers (22 to 8)

http://tinyurl.com/24v23x


Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Fri Feb 1st, 2008 at 05:48:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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