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Five photos from the "1984" days of Petain.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 04:03:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Savoie" is mentioned in several propaganda posters as a "terrorist" state... :-)
Must have been about Oisans and Grésivaudan maquis !

Those have a look of underexposed Ektachromes. I must find some time to go to the gallery show...

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 09:56:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
margouillat:
Those have a look of underexposed Ektachromes.

I could have made the colors more natural with photoshop, but I thought I should present them as exhibited.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:49:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, no... It was more about what film could have been used in 1944 !
And maybe about restoration techniques :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:14:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I could have made the colors more natural with photoshop, but I thought I should present them as exhibited.

I love the look of those pics. Don't photoshop!

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tztmail at gmail dot com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 05:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The dark blue tint does reflect the bizarreness of the period, No?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 03:15:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do think I don't remember this blue tint was a strong on the projected photos - that maybe was caused by photographing a projection...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 07:03:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm going to post the rest of the photos that I took next week;  4 during the occupation, one of the liberation, and 4 just after the war. The first 5 all have a bluish tint, which might indicate that only a certain kind of film (agfa?) was available during the war.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 09:58:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No doubt Agfa, I don't see who would have been using Kodacolor in occupied France. There are some photos here by a wartime photographer who says (and you can see them) the photos he took on Agfa film were bluish.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lep: good idea, I would like to see those !
afew: I agree but then Agfa changed a lot after the war !

The trouble in typing slowly is that the answers are already there when you manage to post !!!

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:27:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know if you saw the photo blogs from the previous  two weeks. I posted about 17 photos of Paris from 1907 to 1920.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 11:14:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Should have been Agfacolor or Kodacolor in those times or Kodachrome or again Ektachrome as those were around for some time...
Ekta has a blue dominance while the three others were inspired by the Lumière's Autochrome and had (and still have for some) a magenta tint !

I was just wondering what sort of film one could get in Paris in 1944... I would think it to be Agfacolor  and the blue being a restoration density artefact !

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:03:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Were you responding to me but didn't know it?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:08:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well... To linca and you... And also to myself, maybe also to afew who overexposed one picture to decipher the billboards..! :-)

While B&W chemicals were easy to find, color negatives or slides would have been quite a problem to get right in those times (unless you belonged to some propaganda staff or military photographer)!

Just musing around !

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:23:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The exhibition explained there were two sets of color photographs from the Paris Occupation ; a French photographer working for the French collaborationist press, who also shot the Paris liberation and got his professional card revoked after the war, and a German technician who was fond of photographing women ;)

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 12:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
aybe we can go back in February. You take some notes and I try to shoot some more photos without being arrested. the we can do a proper diary.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 12:08:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's lighten this one up:

Following the pavilion face-off at the Paris Expo higher upthread, here we have the face-off in the posters during the war in, apparently, Nice (see above hoarding).

On the left, the Nazis were of course fighting terra. The Reds were guilty of Katyn, Vinnitza (I don't know what happened there except it's a Ukrainian town that was nastily visited by the SS Einsatzgruppen...), and the Haute Savoie (as margouillat notes), probably because of maquis activity.

What is the adjectif after "TERRORISME" that is hidden by the passer-by? Sibérien? ???

To the right, we have the good guys who are out in the snow fighting terra: the F that is visible is the end of LVF, the Légion des Volontaires Français, a French Kollabo volunteer unit that fought on the Eastern front. There were not many volunteers.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:04:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh. STALINIEN...

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:05:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Did you call me ? :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:15:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not many volunteers, but many poor alsatians kids that were dragged into it, more so at the end of the war...

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:19:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True, though they weren't in the LVF as far as I know, but in the Waffen-SS or the Wehrmacht (see Malgré-nous).

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:30:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably could've attracted more collabos for the eastern front if they had thought to give them gloves...
by redstar on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 12:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vinnitza (I don't know what happened there except it's a Ukrainian town that was nastily visited by the SS Einsatzgruppen...)

One location during Stalin's Great Terror, exhumed and propagandised by the SS while they filled their own mass graves nearby. Read it here.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 01:16:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, it's a different spelling that Wikipedia didn't bring up for me.

I never fail to be surprised by how sensitive the Nazis were to "atrocity propaganda". That is, they flogged it for all it was worth against the Soviets, but also claimed Jewish complaints about bad treatment before the war were invented. What I'm thinking is that they were aware of the damage it could cause to others and to them if massacres and atrocities were publicised, yet the Allies (West™) always fought shy of using their knowledge of Nazi atrocities (of organised mass murder by the end of 1942) and never fully used it as a propaganda weapon.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 08:46:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah Hum...Modern day propaganda seems just similar...?

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:06:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Propaganda on both sides in WWII was extremely sophisticated. Here's the example from before the war that I was thinking of: the Nazis deflecting attention from reports of growing discrimination against and mistreatment of Jews.

I'd seen the same poster in a different setting. It calls on good Germans to fight die jüdische Creuelpropaganda by buying in German (non-Jewish) shops. A good German lady looks on. The photo tells the story of what good Germans should be doing, etc -- addressed ostensibly, therefore, to a German public.

Er, but what's wrong with that analysis?

Why is the message translated into English?

For which public is the photo (and others like it) really intended? I'd say British and particularly American. The keywords are "Jewish atrocity propaganda". There had been false atrocity propaganda during WWI, and the Nazis were cashing in on it by suggesting Jewish claims of mistreatment were bogus. Muddying the waters...

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:42:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Calomniez, calomniez, il en restera toujours quelque chose" (Francis Bacon

The english part of the picture is indeed surprising ! The fact that it isn't in french too, would aim more at the US then at UK (as after all the french were supposed to be "ze" great military power in the neighborhood)?

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:56:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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