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This may not be relevant, but looking at the map led me to think that the last two hundred years of German history can be approached by the way the state boundaries have shifted. If I get some of the history and geography a bit wrong, put it doewn to my being an ignorant foreigner.

Napoleon consolidated many of the states of the Holy Roman Empire. Then the Prussians expanded across the map (without looking it up, it seems to me at least six of the modern states were wholly or mainly part of the Kingdom of Prussia; and thats not counting the former Prussian territory now in Poland or Russia).

Consolidation even continued during the Weimar Republic, with the creation of Thuringia.

The Nazis (like the Communists later) did not want to encourage traditional regional loyalties, so they broke up the states into smaller districts.

After the second world war the basis of the present state map was constructed. Compared with the Weimar states, Prussia was broken up and there was some consolidation in the south.

Finally after re-unification the states were re-created in the east; producing what exists now.

Another random thought, the Bundesrat seems to have been the model for the European Council. There are the same characteristics of state governments being represented as such, with a prescribed number of votes roughly related to population.

by Gary J on Sun Jan 27th, 2008 at 10:28:43 AM EST
Some additions/corrections to the picture:

  • The Nazis did NOT dissolve the states. In fact, they even created the larger part of one modern state: they unified Mecklenburg. It was only that the Nazis took power everywhere, thus the states became symbolic units in a centralised dictatorship.
  • Indeed Prussia included six modern states almost completely (Berlin, Brandenburg, Saxony-Anhalt, Lower Saxony, Schleswig-Holstein, North Rhine-Westphalia), but also major parts of others.
  • The break-up of Prussia was pursued by the British occupiers. The resulting states didn't much follow pre-Prussian lines -- in particular, Lower Saxony includes former strong local units Oldenburg and Hannover.
  • Saarland was long coveted by France, and was a special region for years after both WWI and WWII.
  • Rhineland-Palatine was created from lands held by Prussia and Bavaria.
  • Baden-Württenberg (in the Southeast) was born from the union of three states only in 1952, which had a long separate history before the war.


*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sun Jan 27th, 2008 at 12:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed. I'd go further and state that the only modern states that really have deep historical roots are Bavaria, Bremen and Hamburg. Local state identity is probably felt strongest in Bavaria. Except in the northern part (Franconia, Francs identify with that). From my impression.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Jan 27th, 2008 at 01:18:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
About the Franks, yeah I heard that too. But don't you range Saxon local identity as still strong, too?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sun Jan 27th, 2008 at 01:33:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't get a lot of that, personally. Saxony is mixed up...
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Jan 27th, 2008 at 02:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the clarification.

I think I was thinking of the Nazi Party structure (gauleiters), more than the formal state institutions, but I do recall that Goering was the Prime Minister of Prussia (amongst other jobs) at one time.

by Gary J on Mon Jan 28th, 2008 at 10:43:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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