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whataboutbob:
I can't quite put a finger on it, exactly, but I find myself increasingly disliking Obama.

I've been cheerfully posting Obama hit comments over at the Big Orange for a couple of months now.

Obama has always creeped me out. He just seems like all PR, all the time, and then once in a while the mask slips and you can see a quiet seething patrician contempt for the little people.

He's happy to farm the little people with his charm, and he's happy to consider condescending to help them once in a while. But he doesn't really see them as equals, and I suspect he's only interested in their lives to the extent that they can help him fulfill his ambitions and vision for himself.

Edwards seems to actually care in a genuine and connected way. I suppose that could just be an act too, but I have a much harder time seeing Edwards as a faker, if only because he'll have burnt a lot of bridges and made a lot of enemies in this campaign.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 05:16:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I find Hillary's utter lack of charm and pretense of caring about the little people somehow comforting.  I don't trust Obama, despite his pretty reassurances, and I wonder whether I can trust Edwards (based on what?)

I know I can't trust Hillary to care about me.  Therefore, she can't play me, and I can't be deeply disappointed when she sells us out.  

I know.  It's a sick game of lowered expectations.  But it gets rid of the stress of the voters and candidates pretending to like each other...

You all have a month to talk me out of this.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 05:33:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I for one wouldn't try, On your own concience be it ;-)

(not that I have a personal choice, apart from none of the other side)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 05:36:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why don't you just vote for someone who you like but won't win anyway? That way you won't be disappointed.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 05:41:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would, if there were someone I liked!!!

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 05:42:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Write in Gore, then.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 05:50:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And have my ballot thrown out?  (Yes, they can do that.)  There are down-ballot races I am actually excited about, and want to vote for.  So I want my vote to be counted.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 05:55:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well if there's not someone you want to vote for, theres definitely someone you want to vote against, that should cut the field down.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 06:06:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is?  Who?  Any of them would be an improvement.


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 06:08:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well who do you like least?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 06:09:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They are all pretty unlikeable.  Kucinich perhaps more than the others.  I like him the least.  But this should not be about who I like.  It should be about who I want running the country.

Who do I want to run the country?  Gore?  Bill Moyers?  Putin?  Unicorns?  

I have to make a choice.   I guess I will take comfort in the fact that my choice has not made a difference in 15 years.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 06:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So it's all about picking the winner?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 06:25:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Poemless: Who do I want to run the country?  Gore?  Bill Moyers?  Putin?  Unicorns?

Migeru: So it's all about picking the winner?

...

Do you have access to some information I don't?  Please share!


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 01:22:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, no, I'm replying to my choice has not made a difference in 15 years.

Is picking the winner the only way that your vote makes a difference?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 01:33:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How else would my vote make a difference?  I suppose that if I lived in FL in 2000 that might be true, that I would have made a difference by voting for someone who lost anyway- Nader.  

I hate it when you do this thing where you understand every well what I meant to say : the person I voted for has lost, but act like you don't.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 01:45:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With that reasoning, your vote only makes a difference, regardless of who you vote for, if the election is decided by a few votes. If you vote for the winner but they win in a landslide, your vote was also inconsequential.

But that can't be the point of voting, can it?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 05:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This line of reasoning is how I concluded that voting is tribal. Since your vote does not change anything, the point must be found in the voter, not the vote.

My conclusion is that you vote to express your part in, and support for, your group (however you define it). Getting a candidate accepted as the probable winner gets the people who wants to identify with the winning party. Getting a candidate defined as the underdog gets those that wants to identify with the underdog. And so on.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 07:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly, the value of the vote is in actually casting it.

There was a point made that on the referendum on the Spanish Constitution of 1978 a lot of the campaigning was against abstention. Those unreconstructed fascists who voted against fell in the trap of validating the democratic system by casting a vote.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 07:49:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose I should have said Like for the job least.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 06:35:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you dislike about Gravel and Kuchinich?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 06:31:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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