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There have been lsits around about what really one would need...

SoI think we could do a list about how we could cut the waste...

My main problem is...
let's forget about eenrgy consumption (which it can be redcued with noa ctual effect int he economy).. what happens if we reduce consumption of the other stuff? Would it mean less jobs? would it mean less grow?

Are we able to get a society where no GDP growth does not mean less jobs?

In other words, is the capitalism system soe asy to ajust? or do we need to get tot he point where we "invent" a cheap source of energy which does no contaminate. so taht we can consume infintely things taht are complete waste but taht are not hurtful tyo the environment? or would the system reamin healthy and in place by cutting the non-sense consumption?

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 09:08:17 AM EST
Well, if we can produce all goods and services we need for survival plus some for entertainment, pleasure and comfort with N standard labour input hours, and we have M  people in this society, each should do N/M hours of work, and all would have jobs and sufficient stuff as well. Now, if we produce less, with less waste and less planned obsolescence and less wasteful 'progress' in terms of new, stupid blinky shit, this could well mean fewer hours of work for each. But not fewer jobs.

(However, if one holds some old fashion notion that a 'job' constitutes 40h payed wage labour each week, the 'jobs' would presumably be fewer. I cannot see why or how one would advocate for this, though.)

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 10:21:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lump of labour fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The lump of labour or lump of jobs fallacy is an argument generally considered to be fallacious that the amount of work available to labourers is fixed. Contending that the amount of work is flexible not static, most economists oppose such arguments. Another way to say this is that it treats a quantity as if it were an exogenous variable, when it's not. It may also be called the fallacy of labour scarcity, or the zero-sum fallacy, from its ties to the zero-sum game.
Is it really a fallacy? Some of the counter-arguments are probably correct when applied to a national economy but maybe not to the global economy.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 10:34:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is a nice Orwellian touch that we now try to maximize the amount of work put into the economic system, and see it as a good thing.

And I kinda doubt the fallacy, with the way UK and France have about the same amount of hours worked ; the greater UK work participation rate due to, well, shorter weeks on average.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 01:25:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Suppose you have a lump of labour. Then, the higher the (weekly) minimum wage the longer the average week and the larger the unemployment rate.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 04:54:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That depends on how the labour week length is flexible... I'm not so sure many people would work more if they earnt more. I know I wouldn't.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 06:31:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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