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Pierre:
foreign investors in bonds of the Irish treasury or the Irish banks, are like, totally mega-cluster-fucked

Sounds like your hedging your bets here...

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Oct 1st, 2008 at 12:28:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reportedly the CDS spread of the Irish banks dropped as a result of the guarantee.

What happened to the CDS spread of Irish government debt relative to other Eurozone governments?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 1st, 2008 at 12:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not betting. As I said, it depends on political decisions, so I stay away from it. But the spread of Irish sovereign bonds to Bunds shoud have widened, at least in the short part of the yield curve (because arbitrageurs could lock in an instant profit it there was a yield difference between the spreads of state and banks during the guarantee period: they could book it at no regulatory capital cost, in some irish-based subsidiary to eliminate future forex risk - hell, we even have one for that kind of purpose, with all kinds of lousy investments in it)

Pierre
by Pierre on Wed Oct 1st, 2008 at 12:58:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I should have added a :-) to my comment above!

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Oct 1st, 2008 at 01:05:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
maturity/ZC spread in percent
3m   0
6m   0
1y  0.68
2y  0.5
5y  0.35
7y  0.45
10y 0.49

This is quite a high level, France looks like:
3m 0
6m 0
1y 0.23
2y 0.16
5y 0.24
7y 0.29
10y 0.25

Note however that absolute yields of sovereigns of Ireland (like all sovereigns) are still going down, as investors run for cover worldwide. They are also unexpectedly volatile. We cannot infer much from these until the dust settles, will take a few more months at least, when all banks are gone or public.


Pierre

by Pierre on Wed Oct 1st, 2008 at 01:09:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
will take a few more months at least, when all banks are gone or public.

LOL

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 1st, 2008 at 01:10:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see very few survivors in the US, UK, Ireland and swathes of the EU.  Spain may be patting themselves on the back now, but they'll be in the next wave IMHO.

The first country to go will be Iceland, and the Scandinavians will bail them out.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Oct 1st, 2008 at 01:20:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oooh, I'd love to see that happen. Might give us a new government.

We've been hearing all about how these Icelanders with all their money have been on a buyout spree all over Scandinavia. Imagine the public reaction if we're then told "uh, dudes, those liberalist superheros on Iceland... Well, they kinda bought our stuff on borrowed money. And, well, now they can't repay. And - uh - need to be bailed out."

Not gonna happen. Nordic solidarity is not nearly as strong as I'd like it to be, even when we're talking justified aid, and our government is taking enough flak for bailing out our own banks without first checking how much it'd cost... I honestly can't see them bail out foreign banks to the tune of a substantial fraction of our GDP.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 03:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looks like this EU thing could be a good idea after all?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 03:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The EU is a great idea. But I'd prefer that the Union didn't bail out irresponsible banks under its jurisdiction until and unless it starts taking an active interest in squashing irresponsible banks before they need to be bailed out.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 03:24:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is lots of talk about Scandinavian banks buying the Icelandic banks (and remember Nordea has quite large state ownership... makes for a "hidden" bailout) - that is, if the Scandinavian banks don't fail first. ;)

Seriously though, the Scandinavian banks do not really seem to have insolvency issues, just liquidity issues.

But I might just have to regret what I just said.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:24:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The big Scandinavian banks don't appear to have solvency issues. The little local ones... Well, they're at four bankruptcies and counting in Denmark alone.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 04:44:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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