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Which language was the dub you were watching in ?

All Sergio Leones are dubbed in all languages...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 04:32:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
English - the original language

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 04:56:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As linca indicated, there was no original language: different actors spoke different languages (even if most spoke English), and there were at leadt three 'original' versions upon first release: English, Italian, German.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 05:35:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Almost all cinema movies are 'dubbed' - ie the actors recreate their lines in a post-production studio using Looping. The Looping process (the actor sees a short scene - usually a single line of dialogue - that loops while they rehearse their line until, when the rhythm and intonation are what the director wants, a take is recorded. Then on to the next line.

The process emerged from the problem of on set/location sound recording quality due to the cumbersome technology of earlier years. But today the problem is noise pollution. It is hard to record good sound on location today - too much extraneous noise.

Of course some directors use location sound, using methods developed for documentaries. But sound is such an important part of movies that its reconstruction - dialogue, FX, Foley etc etc is considered to be a creative process, not a budget process.

Editing of picture, as well as dialogue performance, is another reason for (re)dubbing. When you cut pictures together you create a spatial relationship between the shots. The associated sound has to fit into the space. It is a lot easier to do this afterwards in dubbing - you start with a 'spaceless' voice recording and then add the echo, EQ and ambience that place the voice in the picture space.

Leone, and many other Italian directors, recorded the most primitive of guide tracks on set, knowing that they would recreate the sound in the controlled environment of the studio. Leone took it one step further in often choosing non-actors for the look of their face, and getting in a professional later to 'do' their voice. He also took a lot of liberties in changing the original dialogue. And that led to strange dubbing artefacts - noticeable in Once upon a time in the West.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 05:51:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To be precise, Leone took it three steps ahead: his actors (American, Italian, German and others) and extras (Spanish) spoke different languages, and his international co-production films had multiple 'original dubs' created at the same time during the post-production of the film.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 06:17:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As a process it has relevance to ET ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 06:37:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are two English versions out there.

The 'as released' cut done for US release is a hack job and the film is incoherent.

See if you can get the "Special Collector's Edition" (ISBN 0 7921 7272 8) having the virtue of being what Leone wanted.

(Of course, YMMV as to the value of "being what Leone wanted. :)

by ATinNM on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 01:00:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is another version, I don't know what kind of release but TV stations I have access to sometimes use it, with only 20-30 minutes cut. Despite most of the key scenes left in, that, too, is enough to alter the flow and meaning and reduce coherence. And there is yet another, slightly longer version, re-including some scenes Leone cut (cut scenes in a Leone film? sacrilege! I thought when I first read of it), but I could never get access to it, nor are the scenes on youtube (for example, one with Harmonica between the train station and the roadhouse).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 01:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They shot a sequence, or part of a sequence, where Harmonica gets the tar beaten out of him by the sheriff and his deputies.   (Something like the Tuco/Angel-Eyes encounter at the POW camp in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.)  This missing sequence is why Harmonica looks like he was beaten-up in the roadhouse; in the script he had been.  I don't know if they ever finished the sequence; it wasn't included in any cut -- that I know of -- tho' there are some stills floating around.

 

by ATinNM on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 09:04:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's roughly cut in the collector's DVD.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 12:52:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I read of it at several places as a scene that was shot, and included in some Italian re-release, along with a couple of other less important scenes -- now linca confirms. (I want his DVD!)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 07:07:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The cut English version is the one I had. I'll look out for the Director's Cut.

But anyway - it's just a movie...

<ducks and runs>

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 02:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<looks for troll button>

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 02:33:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it anything like, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly?  Because that just might be the coolest movie ever made.  

My roomates and I had the soundtrack, and would randomly put our speakers in the window facing the street and blare the theme song.  Could be heard blocks away.  Was a lot of fun.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 02:38:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it anything like, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly?

Many stylistic elements are present in both, Morricone was again writing the score, but it is different. More epic, more long scenes, more lead characters (4-5), and a not really happy ending. And more daring: the 12-minute opening scene (credits) is in essence just showing three ugly men being bored, and angel-faced Henry Fonda is the bad guy.

Our tastes have differed before, and the film may have aged, so I can't guarantee you'll like it, but even if not, perhaps it'll be worth it for recognising what inspired later filmmakers.

My roomates and I had the soundtrack

You mean that of The Good, The Bad & The Ugly, or Once Upon A Time in The West?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 03:15:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Good, The Bad & The Ugly, obviously.



"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 04:13:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Casting Fonda as 'Frank' was a neat piece of casting by Leone.  And it was Leone who cast that role.

Bit o' Trivia: apparently original intent was to cast Eastwood, Wallach, and van Cleef as the 3 bad guys at the opening of Once Upon a Time.  Wouldn't THAT have been fun!

by ATinNM on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 09:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL, never heard that... would have been a neat symbol of moving on from the Dollars trilogy to the Once Upon... trilogy.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 07:10:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
DEATH TO THE INFIDEL!

:-)

by ATinNM on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 09:13:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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