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by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:21:26 PM EST
Time to go home, Nouri al-Maliki tells Britain - Times Online

British combat forces are no longer needed to maintain security in southern Iraq and should leave the country, Nouri al-Maliki, the Iraqi Prime Minister, has told The Times.

In an exclusive interview in Baghdad, Mr al-Maliki also criticised a secret deal made last year by Britain with the al-Mahdi Army, Iraq's largest Shia militia. He said that Basra had been left at the mercy of militiamen who "cut the throats of women and children" after the British withdrawal from the city.

The Iraqi leader emphasised, however, that the "page had been turned" and he looked forward to a friendly, productive relationship with London. "The Iraqi arena is open for British companies and British friendship, for economic exchange and positive cooperation in science and education."

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:27:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reliance on the US will never be the same - Times Online

It is pure guesswork whether last night's European measures will create stability or trigger a further rout in financial markets when they open this morning. But two things are fairly clear about this surprisingly strong and cohesive package. First, while short-term stock market reactions are unpredictable, there can be reasonable confidence about the package's economic impact -- it will avert a catastrophic economic collapse or long-term depression. Secondly, the ability of European governments to launch their own financial rescue without waiting for US leadership represents a fundamental shift in global economic relations.

Let me begin with this second point. Since the creation of the Bretton Woods monetary system in 1944 every global financial initiative of any significance has been devised, led and co-ordinated by the US Government. This US leadership did not mean that America always got its way in financial affairs -- nor that US co-ordination always succeeded, as exemplified by the breakdown of Bretton Woods in 1971. But it did mean that international financial initiatives were never attempted until ideas and the leadership came from Washington. The sole exception to this rule in the past 30 years was the creation of the euro; but this was viewed in Washington as an intra-European affair with limited global consequences.

The present global banking crisis has been a very different matter, since it originates in the US itself. Even a few weeks ago a solution without US leadership would have been inconceivable. In the past few days, however, the failure of the Bush Administration to follow through in any concrete way on the $700 billion "Paulson package" that it rammed so painfully through the Congress, has focused attention on Washington's vacuum of leadership and ideas. Aghast at the dithering incompetence of the US in handling this crisis, European politicians have realised that Henry Paulson, the supposedly brilliant US Treasury Secretary, was an emperor with no clothes. Instead of waiting for US leadership, they had to take responsibility for Europe's problems. In trying to do this, they have found an unlikely intellectual guide and champion: the British Treasury and Gordon Brown.

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know how to respond to this cos it corresponds with many of my sentiments about the passing of the baton from the US pretty much exactly, except that it pains me to agree with the Times.

Except that I dislike the anglo-bias that is really anti-european in nature. This is an EU initiative and should be described as such.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 03:01:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't be tempted to doubt yourself or agree with the Times. They did a nice job of stringing together some enticing sentences:
...has focused attention on Washington's vacuum of leadership and ideas. Aghast at the dithering incompetence of the US in handling this crisis, European politicians have realised that Henry Paulson, the supposedly brilliant US Treasury Secretary, was an emperor with no clothes.
but everything else is typical TryingToBeClever drama-writing.

There are not 2 choices: "create stability or trigger a further rout" - this could be a lingering hemorrhage, a calm before the next thousand cuts appear, or many other variations.

"... there can be reasonable confidence about the package's economic impact -- it will avert a catastrophic economic collapse or long-term depression." - or it can merely forestall or assuage said collapse or depression...or, more likely, the package will make it easier for the rich to collect on their hitherto collapsed investments, so that they can tinkle down on us some more.

"The sole exception to this rule {economic leadership comes from the US} in the past 30 years was the creation of the euro..." - Yes, I remember Brazil, Argentina and Venezuela asking US permission to form their banking Union just the other day.

Nope. Just because they are now brave enough to snipe at their erstwhile benefactor, it doesn't mean that they have a grip on the truth.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 04:22:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

EU = safe

And we're all happy to know that the UK is part of the EU.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 05:20:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
America's New Agenda: How the US Can Fix its Damaged Reputation Abroad - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Eight years of Bush administration leadership has severely damaged the reputation of the United States abroad. The incoming president will inherit this deficit as well as a host of other foreign policy crises. To gain back trust, he will have to address nonproliferation and climate change.

Peace Memorial Park in Hiroshima: "It didn't take the actual experience of Armageddon to spur the international regulation of national arsenals."

The president of the United States inaugurated on January 20, 2009 will inherit the most complex, difficult and dangerous array of foreign policy challenges ever facing a newcomer to the Oval Office: wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a rising Iran, a Pakistan that has lost control of its own borders, a languishing Arab-Israel peace process, a Syria covertly cooperating with North Korea on a nuclear weapons program -- and that is just in one region of the world. In dealing with those and other problems, the United States, under its next president, will need all the help in can get from other nations. Therefore the incoming chief executive will have to move quickly to improve -- and indeed repair -- America's image in the world.

Polls taken in recent years show a precipitous decline in respect for and trust in the United States. Those two essential ingredients for leadership of the international community have been severely damaged during the administration of George W. Bush. During his first term, President Bush withdrew from, nullified, "unsigned" or backed away from a range of agreements, including the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, the Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, and the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, which was originally signed by Richard Nixon and Leonid Brezhnev and was observed by the five presidents who followed Nixon.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:33:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This seems a bit overblown to me. Harry Truman inherited the second world war when he became president...
by asdf on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:10:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Republican leaders break ranks with McCain - Americas, World - The Independent

Senior members of the Republican party are in open mutiny against John McCain's presidential campaign, after a disastrous period which has seen Barack Obama solidify his lead in the opinion polls.

And as disputes raged within the McCain camp yesterday, Democrats took another symbolic step towards healing the party after their bitter primary battles, as Bill and Hillary Clinton made their first joint appearance in support of Mr Obama.

From inside and outside his inner circle, Mr McCain is being told to settle on a coherent economic message and to tone down attacks on his rival which have sometimes whipped up a mob-like atmosphere at Republican rallies.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:36:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The bazaar turns against Iran's president - International Herald Tribune

TEHRAN: A strike in Iran's traditional bazaars has expanded despite an order by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to suspend a new sales tax that ignited the protest more than a week ago.

The main entrance to the Grand Bazaar in Tehran was closed Sunday, as major traders like carpet and textile merchants joined the jewelers, who had started the strike in Tehran. The strike continued in the traditional bazaars in several other large cities, including Isfahan, where it erupted first on Oct. 4.

In the latest sign of discontent with Ahmadinejad's economic policies, the merchants went on strike to protest being included in the country's first value-added tax, a 3 percent levy on all products except basic commodities like dairy products and bread.

In an effort to persuade the traders to end their strike, Ahmadinejad said last week that the new tax law would be suspended for two months. But the newspaper Sarmayeh reported Sunday that the traders had demanded that the law be permanently revoked.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:39:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Public Stage for Iran's Ex-President Fuels Talk of Political Return - NYTimes.com

TEHRAN -- Former President Mohammad Khatami, a moderate under pressure by political allies to challenge President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in elections next year, held a high-profile event here on Monday that many saw as a possible first step in his return to the political arena. Skip to next paragraph Related Times Topics: Iran

The event drew several former Western leaders, the first time since the 1979 Islamic Revolution that so many had attended a conference here that was not sponsored by the government.

Mr. Khatami has hinted that he may run for president, but has not officially announced his candidacy. On Monday, he dismissed the suggestion that the meeting had any connection to electoral politics, saying that the conference, on "Religion in the Modern World," had been scheduled two years earlier, the news agency ISNA reported.

But the high-level participants -- including the former secretary general of the United Nations, Kofi Annan; the former Italian prime minister, Romano Prodi; the former Irish president, Mary Robinson; and the former president of Portugal, Jorge Sampaio -- demonstrated Mr. Khatami's popularity in the West.

Mr. Ahmadinejad, by contrast, has isolated Iran with his hostile words. He now faces serious domestic challenges because of a weak economy.



The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 04:08:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Iraqi government fuels 'war for oil' theories with biggest ever reserves sale | Business | The Guardian
* BP, Shell and Exxon in meeting with minister

* Unprecedented 40bn barrels up for grabs

The biggest ever sale of oil assets will take place today, when the Iraqi government puts 40bn barrels of recoverable reserves up for offer in London.

BP, Shell and ExxonMobil are all expected to attend a meeting at the Park Lane Hotel in Mayfair with the Iraqi oil minister, Hussein al-Shahristani.

Access is being given to eight fields, representing about 40% of the Middle Eastern nation's reserves, at a time when the country remains under occupation by US and British forces.

Two smaller agreements have already been signed with Shell and the China National Petroleum Corporation, but today's sale will ignite arguments over whether the overthrow of Saddam Hussein was a "war for oil" that is now to be consummated by western multinationals seizing control of strategic Iraqi reserves.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:40:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Op-Ed Columnist - Are We Rome? Tu Betchus! - NYTimes.com

Bellum Gallium

Manes Julii Caesaris paucis diebus aderant -- "O, most bloody sight!" -- cum Ioannes McCainus, mavericus et veteranus captivusque Belli Francoindosinini, et Sara Palina, barracuda borealis, qui sneerare amant Baracum Obamam causa oratorii, pillorant ut demagogi veri, Africanum-Americanum senatorem Terrae Lincolni, ad Republicanas rallias.

Rabidi subcanes candidati, pretendant "no orator as Brutis is," ut "stir men's blood" et disturbant mentes populi ad "a sudden flood of mutiny," ut Wilhelmus Shakespearus scripsit.

Cum Quirites Americani ad rallias Republicanas audiunt nomen Baraci Husseini Obamae, clamant "Mortem!" "Amator terroris!" "Socialiste!" "Bomba Obamam!" "Obama est Arabus!" "Caput excidi!" tempus sit rabble-rouseribus desistere "Smear Talk Express," ut Stephanus Colbertus dixit. Obama demonatus est tamquam Musulmanus-Manchurianus candidatus -- civis "collo-cerviciliaris" ad ralliam Floridianam Palinae exhabet mascum Obamae ut Luciferis.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 03:52:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At Indian Call Centers, Another View of U.S. - washingtonpost.com

GURGAON, India -- With her flowing, hot-pink Indian suit, jangly silver bangles and perky voice, Bhumika Chaturvedi, 24, doesn't fit the stereotype of a thuggish, heard-it-all-before debt collector. But lately, she has had no problem making American debtors cry.

For the past three years, Chaturvedi has been a top collection agent at her call center, phoning hundreds of Americans a day and politely asking them to pay up. As the U.S. financial crisis plunges Americans into debt, her business is one of the fastest-growing sectors in Indian outsourcing. It is also one of the few sectors of outsourcing in India that is still hiring aggressively.

[...]

"My mortgage payments are just too high, honey. I just can't make the payment this month," a weeping woman with a Southern accent recently told her in response to a call for a $200 credit card payment. "I'm sure y'all heard about the credit crunch and gas prices. I'm flat broke."

"Ma'am, I am here to help you," Chaturvedi calmly said. "Ma'am, maybe you could make a small payment, $100 or $50, anything that you can."

[...]

Few places in India absorb and imitate American culture as much as call centers, where ambitious young Indians with fake American accents and American noms de phone spend hours calling people in Indiana or Maine to help navigate software glitches, plan vacations or sell products. The subculture of call centers tends to foster a cult of America, an over-the-top fantasy where hopes and dreams are easily accomplished by people who live in a brand-name wonderland of high-paying jobs, big houses and luxury getaways.

But collection agents at this call center outside New Delhi are starting to see the flip side of that vision: a country hobbled by debt and filled with people scared of losing their jobs, their houses and their cars.

"Lately, 25-year-old Americans are telling me that they are declaring themselves bankrupt," said Chaturvedi, raising her eyebrows in shock. "These days the situation is so emotional, so fragile. We have to have so much empathy and patience."



The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 03:54:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
vonnegut vortex...

the story and your sig together are proof kurt is still writing somewhere...

:)

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 08:15:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Israel's Leading Parties Sign a Draft Agreement to Form a New Government - NYTimes.com

JERUSALEM -- The main partners in Israel's departing government, the Kadima Party of Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and the Labor Party of Defense Minister Ehud Barak, signed a draft coalition agreement on Monday, moving Ms. Livni an important step closer to forming a new government, representatives of the parties said. Skip to next paragraph Pool photo by Uriel Sinai

Israel's foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, of the Kadima Party, during a weekly meeting of the cabinet last month in Jerusalem. Related Times Topics: Israel

Assuming that Mr. Barak and Ms. Livni sign off on the entire agreement -- which they have not yet done -- her principal remaining task will be to bring on board the ultra-Orthodox party Shas to reach a majority in Parliament.

The most significant part of the draft accord between Kadima and Labor grants Mr. Barak official status as the cabinet's second in command, especially regarding Israel's negotiations with the Palestinians and Syria.

"No issue will be decided in the cabinet without the coordination and agreement of Barak," one of his associates said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he is not his spokesman. "It amounts to almost, but not quite, a veto power."



The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 04:11:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Quiet Political Shifts as More Blacks Are Elected - NYTimes.com

BROOKLINE, N.H. -- Melanie Levesque grabbed the campaign signs from her Mercedes S.U.V. and plunged into the white crowd at the fairgrounds here. The cows were lowing, the cider presses churning and Mrs. Levesque, a black state legislator, was hunting for votes and a place in history.

Blacks account for less than 1 percent of the population in this small suburban district near the Massachusetts border. But none of that seemed to matter to the people here at an annual fall festival this month.

A group of snowy-haired retirees promptly invited Mrs. Levesque to a potluck dinner. Art Fenske, a 91-year-old former paratrooper who served in World War II, presented her with a T-shirt that proclaimed, "Don't ever give up."

And next month, Mrs. Levesque is expected to win re-election to her seat in the New Hampshire House of Representatives, where she represents one of the whitest districts in one of the whitest states in the nation. She is part of a new generation of black elected officials who are wooing white voters and winning local elections in predominantly white districts across the country.

Political analysts say such electoral gains are quietly changing the political landscape, increasing the number of black lawmakers adept at crossing color lines as well as the ranks of white voters who are familiar, and increasingly comfortable, with black political leadership.

Maybe Bradley really was yesterday...

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 04:14:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are real generational shifts. Social attitudes are changing and in many ways for the better. I can see how far things have come in my lifetime. It's easy to be frustrated at the speed of progress and at how far there is still to go. But if you step back and see how far we've come...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 05:39:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
John McCain's two big economic ideas are a freeze on Federal Spending, and a reverse robinhood plan to pay off the rich, and then stuff the poor. It's a pair of proposals so awful as to be nominees for the Smoot-Hawley award for fastest ways to tank the economy. Unfortunately Barack Obama's plans are cut from the same Hooverist mind set. John McCain, out of touch, flailing, erratic, and corrupt, is running on Racism, Rage and Resource Rape.

Barack Obama is running on egoism and a demented Reaganite belief that the problem is that Americans are overtaxed. Here is a run down of the lastest joke of an economic plan from the man who is almost sure to be the next President of the United States, and who is already running hard to be the next Worst. President. Ever. His backing of the bail out bill was not an accident: he really is an economic idiot.

In keeping with my chosen role as Devil's Advocate in the canonization of Barak "Audacity" Obama, I recommend to you a thoughtful article by Sterling Newberry over at The Agonist.
McHoover vs. O'Hoover

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 07:16:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
stirling loves his counterpoint...

this was a brilliant thread, i heartily encourage ET'ers to go read the whole thing.
here's a taste from the last comment

McHoover against OHoover: Why you are just plain fucked this election | The Agonist

Most importantly I see in him a person who understands the limitations of public discourse. Stirling (I think) made the sweeping statement earlier that Americans have been wishing for liberal politics with conservative governance since 1968. Well, I have a problem with this assumption as it is basically based on a fallacy. The fact that if asked in polls they say that they do want a safety net is irrelevant for as long as words like "taxes" and "government" conjure negative associations, there is no way to build this safety net. If a person says he wants health-care but is ready to renounce it the moment (s)he hears the word taxes, then that person is not ripe for the picking by the Democrats, unless (s)he is scared shitless (as is the case now)

This is what makes any democrat's position difficult. It is amazing to even think that people are finally talking about the death of trickle down and that government has a role. It is amazing that the New Deal is once again a part of our discourse. It is this reality that will likely steer Obama towards policies more liberal than the ones he openly expresses. Not because he is ideologically inclined, but because he will find them practical and because they will slowly become part of the public discourse. His campaign is a good guide as to his ability to adapt. Moreover, the presidency has a unique ability of amplifying the elements of the discourse that are useful for its own needs through its privileged position in the media circus.

which made a nice reply to stirling's sapient pessimism...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 08:18:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hope.
Good thing--but insufficient.
Yesterday I said he had no program.


  1. JOB CREATION: A New American Jobs Tax Credit. Obama is calling for a temporary tax credit for firms that create new jobs in the United States over the next two years.

  2. RELIEF TO FAMILIES: Penalty-Free Withdrawals from IRAs and 401(k)s in 2008 and 2009. Obama is calling for new legislation to allow families to withdraw 15% of their retirement savings - up to a maximum of $10,000 - without facing a tax-penalty this year (including retroactively) and next year.

  3. RELIEF TO HOMEOWNERS: 90 day foreclosure moratorium for homeowners that are acting in good faith. Financial institutions that participate in the Treasury's financial rescue plan should be required to adhere to a homeowners code of conduct, including a 90-day foreclosure moratorium for any homeowners living in their homes that are making good faith efforts pay their mortgages.

  4. RESPONDING TO THE FINANCIAL CRISIS: A Lending Facility to Address the Credit Crisis for States and Localities. Obama is calling on the Federal Reserve and the Treasury to work to establish a facility to lend to state and municipal governments, similar to the steps the Fed recently took to provide liquidity to the commercial paper market.

Today I long for yesterday.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 08:39:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I keep telling people Obama is a conservative but nobody seems to hear....

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 09:59:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True. I noticed.
Maybe it's a matter of language.  Dunno, but I have a similar problem.

At first I thought it might be that I just have nothing interesting to say to this group. Now, I see it a bit differently.

I began this ET adventure a few years ago with a diary called "The Quiet Coup". I've read the same story written by others about five times since then, --here and elsewhere--, by people who are theoretically "Serious People". None did it much better, I think.
There's a certain wry satisfaction in being right, even if one is still sitting in the burning house. But the workload is high, and I get more real satisfaction from telling a totally fictitious "wizard and dragon" story to my girls.
With a lot less research.

Hm.
Food for thought

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 02:31:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So do I, and it was my main problem with him.

But now, it's between McCain and Obama. And it is an obvious choice.

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 03:42:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Op-Ed Columnist - Amusing, but Not Funny - NYTimes.com

A country that refuses to properly educate its young people or to maintain its physical plant is one that has clearly lost its way. Add in the myriad problems associated with unnecessary warfare and a clueless central government that wastes taxpayer dollars by the trillions, and you've got a society in danger of becoming completely unhinged.

This is about more than the election of a president in a few weeks. The American people have to decide what kind of country they want.



Now where are we going and what's with the handbasket?
by budr on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 08:25:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Behind the Wheel - 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 - An Exotic 'Vette for the Jet Set - Review - NYTimes.com

Then I came to a stop sign, turned the two-mode damper switch from Tour to Sport and initiated the gas-depletion sequence. A huge wave of torque picked the car up and hurtled it forward in a confusion of g-forces and noise. This is a church-organ V-8 -- heavy, ground-shaking lows run all the way up to hard, tremulous highs. And unlike most supercharged cars, the ZR1 doesn't run out of steam at elevated revs.

What it does run out of is road. Any kind of road. Nothing this powerful has ever been this composed over chewed-up pavement. Because of its magneto-rheological dampers -- their internal fluid instantaneously firms up or relaxes according to road conditions -- the ZR1 won't squat or lean or bobble around. It scoffs at broken concrete, files its nails on rumble strips. Its seductive combination of stability, grip and body control urges you to go faster.

Sigh.  [America.Is.Doomed.]

Now where are we going and what's with the handbasket?

by budr on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 08:38:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 09:03:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
at what speed?

or, more to the point given the purpose of the car - at what acceleration rates?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 09:40:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At a constant 35 MPH, maybe.  Stuck in the funeral procession of the American middle class.

Now where are we going and what's with the handbasket?
by budr on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 09:57:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
10 points...best line of the day.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 11:13:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes- good line!


Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 02:28:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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