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The pay offered by Toyota is irrelevant as they have far lower costs in terms of health benefits. This is why it's useless to talk about saving GM/Chrysler without having national health insurance on the table.

NPR: GM vs. Toyota: By the Numbers

Number of Plants in North America

Source: GM & Toyota

GM: 77, all unionized. Plans to close 12 facilities by 2008 (see press release).

Toyota: 12, three unionized in Long Beach, Calif., Fremont, Calif., and Tijuana, Mexico.


Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker

Source: GM & Toyota

GM: $73.73

Toyota: $48  


Japanese companies have sucky labour standards, but at least they do have fairly good environmental governance. US carmakers suck at both.

I don't see that it's true that the manufacturing power of GM is somehow needed for military reasons. Any war big enough to require the complete conversion of the GM factories to military production is a war in which very little of humanity is left after a very short time (and the GM factories are reduced to smoldering radioactive waste at any rate).

I honestly don't get what you're saying about Ford. Why would they be the least prepared? And what you're saying about GM and Chrysler's market valuation not being determined by economic contingencies is off in some other reality than the one we live in. Yes, Republicans and a lot of New Dems want to kill the unions. Doesn't determine the fact that the companies are making huge losses because they have sucky cars they're selling for too little money.

GM and Chrysler (Ford, too) are simply in a very poor position right now. I recommend reading the report 'Sustainable Value in Automobile Manufacturing'. There is simply no area in which these companies are efficient, are not trailing their competitors by a significant margin.

These industries are dying due to a number of factors. If these factors are not alleviated, you can pump money in endlessly. But it might be a better idea to improve the economies of the rust belt states by spending that money on something else. As in, provide a comprehensive social reinvestment programme to diversify the economies. It's what the Dutch government did when it closed down the (state-run) coal mining industry in Limburg. Worked out splendidly.

I think that GM's company structure lends itself poorly to global competition. If the US govt. takes over, it should at least sell all foreign factories and brands and move to transform the US business to a 1 or 2 brand model.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 03:59:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, those numbers are 3 years old, and do not reflect the change in labor unit cost that occurred when the UAW allowed "legacy costs" (retiree healthcare) to be transferred to a VEBA.  The 2007 UAW contract cut that hourly rate that you mention in half.

After the 2007 GM-UAW contract, hourly labor costs (wage+ benefits) are now lower at GM plants than at most Toyota plants.  And hourly labor costs are rising at Toyota as American employees begin to retire.

I'm sorry to say this, but you're not very well informed on this issue, and you've drunk the corporate kool-aid.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 04:19:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're talking nonsense. The current costs for GM are still as high as ever. Their average labour costs were $73 The lower cost figure only goes for new workers. They still have the legacy cost. So when GM has rolled over its workforce, its product line, and its useless leased vehicle park, there might be the prospect of the company maybe turning a profit again.

You might as well start from scratch.

And when General Motors can only retain its profitability by paying its workers decidedly less, and moving part of their retirement packages to 401(k)s which can be wiped out in any market crisis - what's the point?

ManfromMiddletown:

I'm sorry to say this, but you're not very well informed on this issue, and you've drunk the corporate kool-aid.
Strange times when what's good for General Motors equals what's good for the country is no longer a form of corporate kool-aid.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Oct 12th, 2008 at 08:48:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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