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Background: I did computational physical chemistry in my MsC in bioinformatics. I almost started a PhD in the area (I ended up in population genetics of malaria).

Background 2: I intend to write a much bigger piece on this - taking months, but as you asked, here is an half-baked argument.

Part I
There was one very important lesson that I took from physical chemistry (please apologise if I've forgotten some of the technical details), and it has to do we the models that we have of reality:
It turns out that we know "everything" about physical chemistry (everything in comparison to say, biology, economics where we know little) (interesting that, though we know everything, there is still the uncertainty principle), anyway, my point is another: From ab initio methods, to semi-empirical methods to newtonian mechanics -  this is a scale where we very easily loose our ability to predict how systems work. Ab initio is better, semi-empirical methods less and newtonian mechanics worse....

What is interesting is that newtonian models are, (compared to economic, biological, ...) still grounded one a detailed and profound knowledge of reality.

Our scientific knowledge in "soft sciences" is weaker than newtonian mechanics is for physical chemistry.

That takes me to my first argument: What we know in psychology, biology, economics is much less than we think we know (as an aside, I think your theoretical background might be disadvantageous here: you are in a cognitive world where too much is known. Soft sciences have much bigger amounts of uncertainty and error).

Part II

I am able to find, in the majority of papers that I've carefully read in my area, errors (most of my work last week, was precisely finding an error on a paper). There are people in my area that say that they've never found a completely sound paper. I can point you errors (mathematical) in 80% the papers that I know in the area of malaria resistance modeling. I doubt I can do any better. Population genetics is an extremely complex issue when put to practice. There are much more complex things than population genetics.

My second argument is: Our human cognitive ability might be not enough to understand the universe: Maybe we will never understand the fundamental parameters driving the spread of malaria (although we will delude ourselves that we do). Or we maybe never understand how our brain works. We might not be able to understand, by our own limitations, how the universe works

Part III

We need certainty, we abhor uncertainty. There is a world out there and we need to understand it in order to cope with our fears and doubts. If no rational explanation exists then religion is better than uncertainty. It gives us comfort. We need it, psychologically.
It also makes us like authoritarian models of science (aka, "mathematical proof" that malaria can be eradicated in certain way), they give us comfort. We prefer to read a "definitive proof" then an argument saying "There are lots of doubts".

Part IV

This is not an argument in favor (or against) "higher powers" and a spiritual world. It is just trying to give an evolutionary explanation to the existence of religion.
This is not an argument against science. Just because we might not be able to understand the universe, that doesn't mean a god is needed. It might just be our inability to comprehend complex things.

Part V

A suggestion: you might have to live with your doubts and anxieties about this forever. Keep it cool: maybe there is an afterlife, maybe it is just your brain making things (maybe there is a common cognitve/emotional human response to death as they say), who knows? The best answer for this: a pint at the pub.

by t-------------- on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 03:04:35 PM EST
We're at the d'OH! stage of understanding the brain, never mind the mind.

It was recently discovered Kim Peek, the basis of The Rain Man, lacks a corpus callosum - that little bit that connects the two hemispheres.  Ain't got one.  According to the neurophysiology I learned as a youngster that would mean he's either dead or a vegetable.  Admittedly he doesn't exhibit a full range of human response.  And So What?  

And that is the question: at what point does human experience, and the experience of human experience, trump expectation and description of human experience, and the experience of human experience?  Until we can Falsify previous paradigms and heuristics there is no way to give rise to More Better explanations based on More Better Theories.

 

by ATinNM on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 06:25:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See also Is your brain really necessary?
John Lorber, a British neurologist, has studied many cases of hydrocephalus (water on the brain) and concluded that the loss of nearly all of the cerebral cortex (the brain's convoluted outer layer) does not necessarily lead to mental impairment. He cites the case of a student at Sheffield University, who has an IQ of 126 and won first-class honors in mathematics. Yet, this boy has virtually no brain; his cortex measures only a millimeter or so thick compared to the normal 4.5 centimeters.


A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 06:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a puzzlement.

People have exhibited "normal" behaviour with extensive brain damage, like the boy in your example, and have gone gonzo-weird with (seemingly) minuscule brain trauma.

Part of why I find the Brain/Mind so fascinating.

by ATinNM on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 07:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Except that that boy hasn't had "brain damage". His brain developed from the embryonic stage as a hydrocephallic brain, just like the brain of Rainman developed without a corpus callosus.

So maybe removing the corpus callosus from a normal brain would kill it or turn it into a vegetable, but it's possible for the brain to develop viably without one?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 08:01:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In other words, malformation is not damage.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 08:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.

"Malformation" is a physical characteristic, not necessarily having a functional affect.  

That I know of.

This is kcurie territory and the wimp wimped out.  (The wuss! :-)

by ATinNM on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 08:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, apparently TBG has all the answers on this one!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 08:42:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would anyone like to join my cult?

It's not very expensive. And almost entirely painless.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 09:11:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which plane of reality should I apply through for membership?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 09:14:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Flossing is THE answer!
by ATinNM on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 10:45:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
your cult sells Mental floss?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Oct 19th, 2008 at 05:07:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reference to a passage in a book by Robert A. Wilson.  Joke directed at TBG.
by ATinNM on Sun Oct 19th, 2008 at 01:47:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah answered with a Zappa reply, fishing for people who knew.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Oct 19th, 2008 at 05:14:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
And almost entirely painless.

operative word: almost!!

we already did, tbg, and yes it hardly hurt at all...

clutches cranium and staggers off into the night gibbering.

 je je jejeje...

oops, wires crossed again..

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Oct 19th, 2008 at 01:39:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The developing brain interprets malformation as damage and routes around.

-- #include witty_sig.h
by silburnl on Mon Oct 20th, 2008 at 06:52:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Kim Peeks (the original Rain Man) isn't "normal" by standard criteria.  He is functional for a broad definition of "function."  

It seems there are processes during brain development that 'do their thing' with can give rise (emergent property?) to an attempt to full (?) and complete (?) status?   It seems to be true that areas of the brain have their potential function lost by adjacent areas 'moving in' if it is unstimulated at the proper time or in the proper degree.

Yet other functions - language - develop no matter if the child is stimulated by human language or not.  

Removing functions in a 'finished' adult brain can kill or put a person in a coma.  But not always.  I don't know if an adult has ever had their corpus collosum removed.  There have been cases where it has been severed, eliminating the cross-hemisphere traffic, to ameliorate epileptic attacks.  These are the basis for the Split Hemisphere studies and their well-known findings.  These people are functional but not fully functional to a "normal" level.

As I said, it's a puzzlement.

by ATinNM on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 08:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't say "normal" or even "functional" but "viable".

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Oct 19th, 2008 at 03:52:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Viable" has a group of specific meanings in Biology and is used at the organism/species level.  At that level a brain is not 'viable.'
by ATinNM on Sun Oct 19th, 2008 at 12:54:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A pint at the pub - that's where I have been.  Wasn't expecting to come back to so many comments.

tiagoantao:

Our human cognitive ability might be not enough to understand the universe

I think that is a really interesting point and probably one that many wouldn't like to put forward as being possible.

For me, I don't think I am looking for an answer to what the experience was because although I can't explain it, it doesn't matter - no answer could change the impact it had on me.

I'd certainly be interested in seeing a diary that expands on these thoughts!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 08:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is often said, a map is not a territory. But a territory is not a map just as well. To comprehend, we need to build (or use) a map. A territory like the whole universe can hardly be comprehensible. Or at least, no one will ever able to prove that he knows everything.

Maybe we do not really have "our own limitations", in the sense that our brain in principle can deduce anything that can be concluded by any kind of rational thinking. But there may be limitations of "any rational thinking", but we still may need to go beyond for mere survival. We may need to consider conspiracy theories in dealing with enemies; we may need to outright believe that global cataclysms will leave survival chances. A feasible next step in the evolution of scientific method could be building up discipline of working with plenty of poorly verifiable (or falsifiable) models. More models (=maps) would have to be allowed, at least in dealing with burning economical or ecological problems. Occam's razor and immediate empirical testability won't be the only factors in ranking models; we may value richness of connections, concreteness of guidance, degree of inspiration. Even "story-telling" explanatory power can be most valuable if broad communication of a theory is important.

And more patience with verifying those models. Say, even in "perfectly scientific" physics, what the new CERN Large Hadron Collider  is supposed to do is to test 30-years old theories. How much time should we give to test a social theory? Something like 70 years? We may also have to learn uncertainty. I think that human desire for certainty is overestimated. People are able (and love) to gamble as well.

I suspect that models of NDE's (in particular) will hardly be free of hardly testable features. So far, my model is similartly simplistic as the rational "brain processes" model. I see an evolutionary significance of NDE's: it is not only birth, growth and procreation that are genetically-neurologically planned in detail. Getting old or dying must be particular routines as well. If that helps to make the "good choice" even in just a fraction of occurrences, that is already significant. (In general, I am still impressed by Timothy Leary's eight-circuit brain model, popularized by Robert Anton Wilson.)

by das monde on Mon Oct 20th, 2008 at 02:44:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine. ...

Sir Arthur Eddington

One of my favorite quotes. I have always believed it to be essentially true.


I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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