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Marxism was just a theory. Even in the 19th thinkers understood that a theory is not literally the absolute truth, or a definite law, or all-embracing imperative. Even Bolsheviks did not read Marxism as "completely defining relationship dynamics" - the definitions badly fit the tsarist Russia.

As a theory, Marxism is still a potent one. It is reflexive anti-Marxism that is quite a Grand Narrative now.

by das monde on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 01:38:33 PM EST
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The enduring value of Marx is as a social critic and for his contributions to sociology.  These stand and are taught as such at least in graduate school courses in social theory, historiography, etc.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 01:49:39 PM EST
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Firstly, Marxism is in no sense a theory. Aside from a vague prediction about Bad Things Will Happen to Capitalism, it doesn't make many concrete predictions about specific outcomes. In fact the fall of Capitalism isn't so much a prediction in the scientific sense, as an example of a narrative claim on Manifest Destiny - which should be enough to raise suspicions immediately.

Secondly the predictions Marxism did make, especially about social relationships in the absence of Capitalism, have turned out to be spectacularly wrong.

Thirdly Marxism has become so buried under so many contradictory off-shots and interpretations that it's no longer possible to know what Marxism actually says. There seem to be some points that Marxists more or less agree on, including the infinite plasticity of human character. But on that point Marxism has been disastrously wrong.

Finally, there's nothing 'reflexive' about trying to put together a comprehensive critique. There's nothing inviolate about Marxism. It made some useful points at the time, and it's possible to learn from them. That doesn't mean it should be treated as the final word on social relations.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 01:51:01 PM EST
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Certainly, Marxism does not meet a standard of "final world on social relations"? But which economic or social theory does? Which of those theories has the most interesting parts in predictions?

The fall of capitalism was indeed beyond-scientific prediction. Marx could have calmly stopped by capital and labour crises - and boy, wouldn't be right?

Picking up contradictory and agreement points of presumed followers is like pedantically reading a Bible by each letter - that is not really interesting. As prediction of social "experimentations" go, social theories can only test a couple of them per century - not a great basis for definite inferences.

We may label the obvious Soviet experiment as disastrously wrong, mut we may also give a decent (non-exclusive) credit to Marxism for almost a century of the social-economic-democratic evolution where almost all members of some societies got full economic-social powers and rights. That should not taken for granted - before we know it, we might find ourselves in the "tested" social systems where only rich Bourgeoisie and their servants are overwhelmingly visible, like it was 100 years ago, or it is shown in Latin-American soap operas.

by das monde on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 03:12:20 PM EST
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19th Century thinkers were forced, unwillingly, to that conclusion by the development of non-Euclidean geometries.  The 'point,' as it were, of the work on The Foundation of Mathematics was to get around that development and return to Certainty.
by ATinNM on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 01:58:08 PM EST
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