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I suspect we can rule out the unethical 'means' of wealth generation--metatone correct me if not-- maybe  what we really need to ask is first what type of 'wealth' are we talking about?

Obviously, not Range Rovers, but perhaps relatively sophisticated manufactured goods? Ovens, refrigerators, washers--standard appliances that are truly labor saving and improve the quality of life. Another level of wealth would be those thing which are entertaining and useful in drawing us closer to the larger world, computers, routers, televisions, radios, etc.

Robert Wright postulated in NonZeroSum that the world was on an evolutionary course toward greater knowledge /complexity, effected, as he saw it by more tightly intergrated transportation and communication mechanisms, those in turn were driven by man's natural propensity to trade. In his view, trade was an underlying mechanism--rather like natural selection--that was a driving force for social evolution.

Of course, as we all know, if we've read our Gould, there's no reason to suggest that evolution has any real 'goal' or purpose. Biology is not necessarily teleological. We just like to think of ourselves as an obvious endpoint, rather than say the horse (I'd personally argue that bacteria could make a greater claim as a 'sucessful' species, but I digress) So arguments about the mechanisms of 'trade' as evolutionary and good and leading to the glorious flat world (qua T. Friedman and M. Friedman) are just that--arguments. There's nothing to suggest that a society--or collection of societies --that manage to trade excessively and create lots of stuff -- is actually better suited for survival than a society that trades less, has less of those things we call 'wealth' but perhaps prioritizes their cultural so that communication and knowledge exchange is highly valued, material exchange, not so much.

So I'm thinking the idea of wealth needs to be understood outside of a commoditized context. Wealth is not necessarily 'a thing', wealth can perhaps better be thought of as a comfortable relation between the physical world and ourselves; and that comfort should be thought of in both pyschological and physical terms. For example I think there are huge pyschic imbalances in the western world view that sees  animals, land and water as a means towards wealth generation and not an end in and of itself. When metatone described the idea of 'subsistence' living, as some how 'not' wealthy, I was struck by how fundamentally locked into the idea of 'wealth as things' we are. I think if we're going to survive as a species (which I am deeply in favor of) we need to move beyond that view.

by delicatemonster (delicatemons@delicatemonster.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 10:59:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We should have a full blown discussion here at ET.  I gotta go for my morning walk and cookie buying run (got a tutoring student coming by this afternoon.  Promised her cookies if she would invest her time in a weekend session.) but I will return.

Question:  What is the "good life" that people are striving for?

YES   YES  YES !!!

Now where's the fun in that! - Megatron

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 11:29:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but what do you expect from a bonnie raitt fan?

interesting diary...of course friedman's voodoo looked good, laying in the hot springs wishing you could vary your rotted shark diet, and wondering what your home would be worth if glossy malls and phat SUVs started springing up everywhere...

like alchemists of old, turn dross into cash, baby, live now, pay later, it's magic, look we're real first-worlders now.

as goes iceland today, so will go england tomorrow.

over-populated, resources inadequate and abused, self-sufficiency will have to take over from lying for money phancy phinancial shervices as prime national priority.

and a better country will ensue, once the corner's turned...

and the icelanders will get back in their free sulphur-water and get back to phantasising about the next cargo cultist who will come along and show them how to be real players in the Great CON Game.

they might still have the last laugh, as england struggles to make enough hot water to keep 60,000,000+ people clean, beating old range-rovers into solar water heaters in the rain, or gathering peat on the windy moors or salty bogs to warm their wee hearths!

i wish i could be sure that this cycle will not rpeat itself ad infinitum, seems people are historically always  suckers for a get-rich-quick scheme, the great free lunch in the sky...

maybe we'll write an epic saga so spielbergian, so wagnerian it will be chanted for millennia around our mugs of lichen tea as we huddle cosily in our igloos, barding and quothing and quaffing away:

"beware of the silver-tongued economists, with their smooth come-ons, rolex watches and pretty, pretty lies.

when they whisper sweet nuthins about how they'd like to mortgage your mother and privatise your ass, tell 'em to take a long hike on a short glacier, and come back when they get a clue."

it's the LORE, adapt or migrate!

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 07:38:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...melo...that was an absolutely bloody brilliant comment.

An ET classic.

melo:

maybe we'll write an epic saga so spielbergian, so wagnerian it will be chanted for millennia around our mugs of lichen tea as we huddle cosily in our igloos, barding and quothing and quaffing away:

Lichen tea....priceless....

melo:

when they whisper sweet nuthins about how they'd like to mortgage your mother and privatise your ass, tell 'em to take a long hike on a short glacier, and come back when they get a clue."

a long hike on a short glacier...

I almost choked on my croissant....

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 06:17:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nice.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 01:13:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Turn down the light
Turn down the bed
Turn down these voices
inside my head,

Lay down with me
Tell me no lies
Just hold me close-
Don't patronise

------Don't patronise.

-Bonnie Raitt

From another Bonnie Raitt fan.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 01:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
she always found such grown-up lyricists, such taste and grit in her playing and singing.

my heroine...

the person i would most like to meet and jam with.

bar none

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 07:30:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was fun jamming with her the one time I did, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.  Memory fades; we were all pretty loaded that night.
by rifek on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 02:28:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the closest i got was a jam with freebo at a texas songwriters' festival, and i wasn't half near loaded enough...

what were you playing?

if you remember...

:)

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 08:05:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In my village the vampires will not be allowed to move on, although they will be allowed to take a walk, to die with their guts wrapped around a standing stone, sacrificed to wiser gods than the ones that have overseen the current fiasco.  Ooo, I feel myself sinking into the sagas.
by rifek on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 02:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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