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Define "persistent culture". How long does it need to last?

Humans don't have a venomous bite. Does that make spiders and snakes Animals 2.0?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 29th, 2008 at 06:48:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, let's go for Frans De Waal's definition of culture: "socially transmitted behaviour".

You have to have the ability to transmit behaviour between individuals. It shouldn't be surprising that animals can do this but every time it's proved by research for a particular species it makes big headlines. Maybe a lot of what passes for "instinct" is actually cultural transmission. The experience of releasing animals bred in captivity out in the wild should provide a data point.

But there is a stage beyond "transmitted behaviour" and that is "transmitted information". There's no reason to believe that some animals can't have a "concept" of the world, but can they transmit it to others in their group? That would be in the same 'Animals 2.' (maybe 'Culture 2.' is better) class as oral-transmission human cultures.

And then we get to the production of material artifacts to supplement memory - is that 'Culture 3.*' ?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 29th, 2008 at 06:59:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
There's no reason to believe that some animals can't have a "concept" of the world, but can they transmit it to others in their group?

i believe they can, but it's anecdotal.
when i took my horse to a pro stables for 3 months during training, he was a totally good natured animal, more pet than worker.

he learned to work while there, for sure, but he also learned something else, a spirit of disrespect for humans he had never exhibited before, a flare of rebellion, a vein of crankiness.

i felt it was worth it, so i tried to compensate, but it distressed me, and i eventually brought him back home a month before the trainer thought appropriate, because i was fed up with the personality disintegration.

after a month of a lot of personal attention, grooming and treats, he regained his original mellow friendliness, as i had hoped, (and had faith in, because his early childhood, his first 2 years were as close to idyllic as could be, and that's why i chose him, not just because the breed has a rep for toughness, resilience, intelligence and long, healthy lives.)

so the early conditioning is always the bedrock, and has the most power, but animals can encourage each other to change their attitudes, at least it sure seemed that way, though i'm aware you could probably never prove it 'scientifically'!

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Oct 29th, 2008 at 03:13:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman:
Define "persistent culture".

Some webs are more interesting and bigger than others.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Oct 29th, 2008 at 01:30:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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