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Sorry to disappoint you, but my intent was not to be taken completely seriously. Rather, it was a feeble attempt at sarcasm over the issue of race and sectionalism in America, and not just for this election. I have no problem with voting for or against a man or woman regardless of their skin color or claims of racial identity. I do find it ironic, however, that Barack Obama is labeled by most as "black" despite the fact his mother was caucasian. There was a time in some US States that matters of parentage and racial identity were codified, but those labels were discontinued long ago. Some of the material(the conversation with the African American woman, for instance, did take place but the reference to Obama being half black or half white was fictional.  I used it just to illustrate the point that race is really irrelevant to many people.

I was reared in a racially segregated society and did not begin to think for myself about American racial issues until I was about 18 years of age. I came of age in the Southern U.S. during the civil rights movement era (60s-70s) and experienced an awakening of sorts over the following years starting during a short stint in the US Navy where I met several young African American men from our community and had a chance to deal with them on a personal basis. I would guess that my views on race problems(cause and effect) in America are somewhat different in the aggregate from what most people expect but they are mine.

I do bristle when someone singles out the Southern US to negatively highlight racial issues.  Prejudice in America does not have regional boundaries and to claim otherwise is sheer hypocrisy.

I do not deny that many in the South remain prejudiced against men and women of color, some violently so, but the reasons vary and are more complicated than one might expect.  

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 12:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I bristle at that as well.  I think racism is more open in the South, but it's also right to point out that prejudice, as far as campaigns go, has often shown itself most in places that are not stereotyped as racist.  The Bradley race was in California, after all.  The fact that it's perhaps more open down here also means we know what we're dealing with.

A lot of people talk about the "Pennsyltucky" part of Pennsylvania.  Guess what?  Obama's pulling almost even there, which never happens for Dems.

Further, many of the presumed most-racist places are some of the places that have been the first to elect black officials.  Louisiana delivered our first two black senators.  (Granted, that was prior to the Great Migration and wouldn't likely happen in modern-day Louisiana.)  Virginia, our first elected black governor.  Massachusetts -- home of Boston, allegedly the most racist city in the North -- elected the second black governor.

And Obama is, of course, winning Virginia, Florida and North Carolina.  He may well come very close -- might even win for all we know now -- in Georgia, which may elect the third black governor (if Shirley Franklin runs to succeed Sonny Perdue).

It's not that the stereotypes are completely wrong.  There's a lot of racism in the South.  But the portrayal of the racially-backwards South vs the harmonious rest is ridiculous.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 12:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would I be right in thinking that racial prejudice is masked by class prejudice further North - i.e a professional black is more acceptable than a trailer thrash white?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 01:29:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in my humble opinion, this is often the case, but some Northerners that I've met are just as open in their racism (not class based) as anyone in the South. Others just dodge personal contact with all African Americans whenever possible.  Some African Americans do the same though and don't like whites at all.  A lot depends, I suspect, upon the way they were reared and life experiences.

Actually, despite growing up in a racially segregated society, I find I have more in common, culturally, with African Americans and usually have an easier time forming friendships with them than with most white non-Southerners.  Hundreds of years of sharing the same culture comes through despite the circumstances.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 11:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think most Southerners would admit that in private, even if many would hate to do so.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:12:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect many southern whites hate northern whites more than their black neighbours.

Question:   Would Obama publicly going back into Georgia help or damage Martin against Chambliss?  I.e would it polarise the senate race more and force a greater Martin/Obama identification which would damage Martin - even if it might help Obama in Georgia?

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:25:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure.  I'd play it safe and not associate Martin and Obama too much, unless Obama's favorables are into the 50s in the state (which I doubt, but they may be for all I know).

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 12:43:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I assume the political question is for Drew so I won't answer and don't really know the Georgia scene that well.

However, I want to respond to the comment about Southerners hating Northerners.  I don't see a lot of what I would call hate for white Northerners in the South, but I suspect there are some who "have no use" for Northerners.  Despite changes over the past 50 years, a cultural divide continues between the South and other parts of the U.S.  Sometimes I wonder if it's not becoming more pronounced.  My wife recalls overhearing a conversation between two Northerners as their commercial plane was about to land in a Southern State (and I've heard similar remarks so I wasn't surprized). One looking down and out the window stated "...they are different from us you know." The other responded "..yes, they even smell different."

Now, during the civil rights movement there were many Northerners who came South to support the African American movement in one way or the other (e.g., accompanying freedom riders).  They were resented by many Southerners who considered them to be interfering hypocrites, though their intentions may have been good. A few were murdered for their trouble.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 01:01:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also depends on where you are in the South.  As you know, we have a fair number of Northerners in NoVa.  The big southern cities all do, which explains a lot of the political changes taking place (as always: Virginia, NC and Georgia being the obvious examples).  The southern states without big, diverse cities -- basically all of the others -- are obviously the ones in which the cultural divide is most apparent.

Mostly it's a lack of experience that causes it, whether we talk about division by race or region.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 03:58:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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