Is that decent work? *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
But the question of whether there are enough decent jobs is one that popped into my head.
Perhaps thinking of areas where poverty is rife, there must be some forms of employment that can be generated that can target poverty and social issues through the jobs created and also through people being able to earn money. Local people actively involved with the regeneration and development of some areas could be one such source. Ad astra per aspera
a job that enables them to live a good life in which their basic needs are met
By this definition, so long as the bag fillers are paid enough - yes.
Which is rather the problem, philosophically.
DeAnander and I have sort of discussed in comments and diaries the notion of the return of "feudalism." I think that's what this "decent work" concept doesn't really address.
We're developing an unequal economy. The "decent work" notion addresses the first problem that those on the bottom are often starving and lacking basics.
But however you provide these things (and this is largely a concept of a minimum wage) there remains the issue of power inequality. And dignity.
In parts this is very complicated. After all, why shouldn't my elderly aunt be able to go to the supermarket and wander round, choose the things she wants, put them in the trolley and then be aided at the checkout by someone more physically agile? Could it not be humanly and socially rewarding to be a "bag filler" in this scenario?
Of course at the same time, it's easy to conceive of situations where being a bag filler has less dignity to it.
And none of these problems about "service work" - (being a servant?) broach on the issue about fulfilment...
(To be clear I think solving poverty is a positive step, I just worry that you can do it and still leave power inequalities buried in the structure of the economy when people are classified as "not in short supply.")
eg with the view being that no matter what the work is, everyone is making a positive contribution and are able to earn a living from that.
There are so many jobs that I can't see a way of making them fulfilling in themselves, but if working in decent conditions at the very, least some fulfilment can be gained from working in a good environment, and interacting with other people. Ad astra per aspera
But also even 'crap' jobs could be worth doing if the conditions people work in and the pay they receive was decent enough. Ad astra per aspera
What's the point of the former definition - which seems to be the one used here ?
The probleme with unemployment isn't the jobless wanting jobs, it's the jobless wanting money. Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
Unemployment increases the likelihood of depression and that isn't just a money related issue but stems from having nothing to do. Being a bag filler isn't necessarily an alternative nor is any random pointless 'job' but nor does that mean that the aim of job creation should be written off. Ad astra per aspera
There are many ways to "feel useful" that don't require the exchanges of power and time required by employment. There are -used to be- many channels of social contact available, beyond employment.
We're building a society where "holding a job" becomes the only avenue of social interaction and fulfillment. The problem is that "holding a job" is a lousy way of social interaction and fulfillment - work can become an tension filled environment where friendships are hard to form ; fulfillment is not so easy to come by when doing someone else's bidding.
And our capitalist societies aren't shaped to provide "good jobs for everybody" ; the producticity requirement in much of private employment, the fact employers want full time employees, and that our automatising societies don't require as much human labour as it used to, converge towards more and more unemployment.
We can decide to force our societies into the full employment paradigm of the twentieth century, or try to change them towards a different paradigm - did you see Martin's diary about Basic Income ?
The rentier of the 19th century didn't seem so depressed about not being productive... Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
I agree that there are other ways of being engaged and useful but the challenge is changing societies where it is a badge of honour to appear on daytime tv shows like Jeremy Kyle - think Jerry Springer...
It's a problem that is so deeply ingrained in the UK that I can't work out where it begins or ends or where it isn't. It ties in with everything, the education system, the principles of 'welfare', inequalities, employment...
The scenario you wish to present - how do you shift the paradigm to begin to move towards that? Ad astra per aspera
