European Tribune - Comments - Thursday Open Thread

If I had any money I'd be asking myself - is it time to buy yet? :)

Cuz waiting for 8500 might be greedy. Or, smart.

It's not really an issue since I have no wads of spare cash under my bed.

by Maryb2004 on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 04:19:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't buy yet. I still think we're going to 8,000, maybe lower. Think the S&P's going to 800.

Is it too late to get those loans back from the automakers?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 04:22:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep, spent the day they got them.

Ah, well I'll hold onto my imaginary money a while longer.

by Maryb2004 on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 04:25:11 PM EST
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That's too bad. Doesn't look like Ford and GM are going to make it. The former's trading below $2. The latter's below $5 and dropped about a third of its value today.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shit (none / 0)

A pop-cicle company or lemonade stand sells for more than $2/share.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

GM is at it's lowest since 1950, which means we haven't progressed since i was born, at least in the auto industry. and believe me, i'm old.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:11:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

GM hasn't produced anything worth the powder to blow to hell since 1950. I think Wall Street's being pretty generous.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:15:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have trouble feeling sorry for the companies or their shareholders but I feel sorry for the workers.

by Maryb2004 on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 06:06:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Same here. But we can't just prop up Detroit forever. The Big Three have been managed by world-class morons for too long, and at some point I think we have to say, "Sorry, guys, but it's time to find a buyer," as we've done with the banks.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 06:14:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cry a river with Sad Guys On Trading Floors.

by das monde on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:18:54 AM EST
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Great pictures. Too bad about the "funny" captions.

by Trond Ove on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:11:56 AM EST
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Drew Man, you still plugged in back east?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 04:59:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Indeed. What's up?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:02:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shit, I go for a 3 hr nap and the DOW has tanked again. How's that playing in your neighborhood?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:07:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's up double-digits here -- in a state that hasn't voted Democratic since the Lyndon Johnson landslide of 1964. I think that illustrates how it's playing here pretty well.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What do you think about the future prospects of ET?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:12:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think ET should be given an award, along with a lot of other blogs, for being smarter than the retards on television and in print media. I'm not optimistic about that.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What do you think about ET becoming a Think Tank with new ideas/solutions that the Obama admin. will look to? Think the fact that it's European will knock it out of consideration?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, Jerome actually co-authored a plan called Energize America 2020. It was being pushed by Daily Kos bloggers for a while, and, as I understand it, a few members of Congress were interested.

As for ET doing it, I think -- and I'm cognizant of the fact that I've contributed in comments -- there's been far too much "Americanization" of ET. It's a European site, and I, personally, come to read and discuss what's going on across the Pond.

But I do think American bloggers should be involved in pushing policy rather than simply campaigning.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:25:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't worry. We don't mind for another month, but don't be surprised if come mid-November we don't want to know for a bit

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:51:58 PM EST
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Come November 5th, I think we'll be counting down the days until Chimpy McFlightsuit is gone.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 06:00:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yo Twank, check out the whole series of ET think-tank and related diaries before you wax Twankin'.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:26:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Point me in the right direction. Link me.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:31:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Homework is part of the European work ethic. Link yourself, or search the archives.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 06:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, right. Thanks for nothing. Go back to your bottle.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 06:14:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The cream rises to the top, especially when, in times of flame-out and meltdown, we all turn to each other virtually, to take solace, find kindred spirits, and pass along the growing wisdom.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:24:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"I wouldn't buy yet. I still think we're going to 8,000, maybe lower."

You're assuming that the financial system as we know it will come out the other end in recognizable form. There are other possibilities, e.g. broad nationalization of industry. If it's ok to nationalize banks and insurance companies, why not car manufacturers, oil companies, drug companies, telephone companies, railroads...with unpredictable results for common stockholders...

by asdf on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Or there is this kind of version. On the other hand, wealth differentials historically drop with financial collapses. Won't we learn from the 19th century?

The ongoing tectonic shifts are beyond comprehension. Here are latest topics just from one blog:

The US is considering more drastic measures to shore up the banking system, namely guaranteeing bank debt and removing the ceiling on deposit guarantees... The proposal apparently being floated merely extends out to debt of 36 months and thus appears to be directed at freeing up the money markets and alleviating worries about rolling over maturing debt... Credit default swaps are a significant multiple of the value of underlying cash bonds, and more contracts get written when a credit starts looking rocky... Believe it or not, it is cheaper to insure the debt than pick up the pieces (in this environment) of losses on the credit default swaps... It is horrific that we ever got in this position...

What is going on here? The financial system is on the verge of a meltdown... So Moody's decides NOW to put out a possible downgrade alert for Morgan Stanley?... After their DECADES of being slow to downgrade... Moody's decides to become true believers in timeliness when that can have the effect of driving a knife into the markets and giving a twist?... If an investment bank is downgraded beyond a certain level, counterparties stop trading with it because they will get downgraded automatically by virtue of their exposure...

International Trade Seizing Up Due to Banking Crisis... By way of background, letters of credit of various sorts are essential for trade.... Not only are banks now leery of lending to each other for much longer than overnight, they are also starting to refuse to honor letters of credit from other banks...

Roubini Warns of Possible Systemic Meltdown, "Severe Global Depression"... Even by the standards of his alarming missives, his latest is truly troubling. Roubini effectively says the wheels are coming off the global financial system, and if corrective action is not taken immediately, the damage to the real economy will be extensive...

Rout Continues in Asia... The Nikkei went into free fall after the open, down over 900 points, and as of this writing has staged a minor recovery to a mere 780 points down and is now down 880 from yesterday's close. Singapore is down 7%, Australia 6%. The yen is at 99 to the dollar, and gold is at $928 an ounce...

by das monde on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:54:38 AM EST
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Dow(n) (4.00 / 3)

A fitting finale for Bush's presidency, you have to admit.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 04:34:02 PM EST
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Re: Dow(n) (4.00 / 3)

I had just finished a conversation with just this theme. How fitting for the frat boy f*#kup. Let the media spin "Legacy." He's left the planet in a flaming mess, and his name will for centuries, hopefully forever, be synonymous with abject venal failure.

How sad that we all have to pay the price for his groundless hubris.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 04:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dow(n) (none / 0)

The one saving grace is this meltdown is happening at the end of Bush's term rather the beginning. Can you imagine what he would have done in early 2005? It would have made Hoover's term look responsive and moral.

by ATinNM on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 07:39:41 PM EST
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Re: Dow(n) (none / 0)

a perfect epitaph for republicans, i'm hoping.

the spin is now that liberals have been scheming for decades to unravel the great benefits to society and economies by reagan and thatcher, and collapse government into socialism.

they're as spooked by pelosi as if she was the devil-

considering she's given them everything they wanted in congress since 2006, i can't think why...

oh yeah, she said nasty partisan things.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:00:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dow(n) (none / 1)

melo:

the spin is now that liberals have been scheming for decades to unravel the great benefits to society and economies by reagan and thatcher, and collapse government into socialism.

Ffs - what it is going to take for these kooks to finally start dealing with reality?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 06:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dow(n) (none / 0)

ThatBritGuy:

Ffs - what it is going to take for these kooks to finally start dealing with reality?

exactly what's coming down the pike...

nothing else will scrape the calcified belief systems out of the frontal lobes.

it didn't have to be this way, but now it is so...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 09:07:55 PM EST
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Re: Dow(n) (4.00 / 2)

No, leaving them in ruins, fighting a civil war within their party for years to come, would be the fitting finale on November 4th.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You should use the [Drew's WHEEEEE™ Technology]

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:15:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]