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He's self deluded.

We've had a center right electorate.  Old people vote, kids don't.  It's shifting under his feet and he doesn't want to admit it.

 

by HiD on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 05:03:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You had a far-right electorate. Now you have a right-wing electorate. Obama can see the centre - on a sunny day without too much smog - but there's no way in Hell or Heaven that he's a centrist.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 10:55:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In what political spectrum? Among Mongols in the time of the rise of Genghis Khan, he might be on the liberal side of the spectrum.

IOW, the idea that it is possible to have any one-dimensional political spectrum that is defined in any absolute terms seems wrong to me ... the only reasonable way to identify a one-dimensional spectrum is with respect to a given polity and the issues in play in that polity.

Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 11:11:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I don't get the feeling that Obama hates ordinary people enough to make him right-wing. Unfortunately, he's in the US system that basically doesn't admit a lot of the things he'd need to do to be left wing as allowable.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 11:14:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If being in the US system doesn't permit being as left wing "as allowable" ... in what sense is the allowable bit allowable?

Obama during the primary showed no inclination to press against the left edge of the Overton Window ... which itself has been pushed quite a far way to the right over the last three decades. So there is no actual basis for anticipating that he will be anything other than a "centrist progressive" in terms of pushing for progress on problems that a majority of Americans wish to see progress on and framed in terms that a majority of Americans are already inclined to view them.

Obviously, in terms of foreign affairs, the US is so far to one extreme on the world stage that the center within the US political system would still be an extreme position in the international context.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 11:30:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't anticipate that he intends to be other than a centrist. Depending on who catches his ear and on how long it takes for him to work out that the solutions being made available to him are stupid, he may end up being pushed elsewhere by events.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 11:44:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On a civilised political spectrum. One where opposition to torture, wars of aggression, wage slavery, debt peonage, colonialism and the police state are entry requirements, not something you get brownie points for.

Which may be absurd cultural absolutism. But IMO that's less absurd than calling - say - Milton Friedman or Boris Yeltsin "centrists" (which they would be relative to Chilean politics during Pinochet and Soviet politics during Gorbachev...).

There is also a political point: The Overton Window does not move on its own, or at least does so only very slowly. If the Left (whether in relative or absolute terms) is ever to move the zeitgeist in a more appealing direction, it must first acknowledge that there is a problem with where the zeitgeist is at the moment. Permitting Obama to be framed as a "centrist" (in what other developed country is "we'll see what we can do about it" a centrist position on universal health care?) is counterproductive to that objective.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 05:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... in the Chilean political spectrum. He was working hard to pull the system further to the right.

It does not make sense to try to shoehorn the kind of spectrum described in the comment into a single-dimension, "left right" spectrum. More dimensions are needed to identify a political position with respect to stable reference points.

The only way that a one dimensional spectrum can make any coherent sense is in lining up the coalitions pursuing political change in a given political system ... and even there, the effort to impose a stable one dimensional spectrum in a given political system eventually falls apart in the face of the political evolution of that society.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:09:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
if you get far enough out on the left, everything else looks like the right.
by HiD on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 04:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you really think that has been the trend over the last thirty years?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 04:36:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we shifted slightly rightward as a nation after 40+ years of the New Deal and Great Society.  Unfortunately we have a binary system.  Reagan was to the the right of the electorate, but after Carter's inability and with exploitation of the social and racial issues of the times, the center gave him a mandate  to try things his way.  We're reaping the harvest right now.  The center is giving the left a shot again.  If Obama can be successful, the R's are toast for a generation.

I note Berlusconi, Merkel, Sarkozy are also in charge in Europe.  It hasn't been just us.

by HiD on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 05:06:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It hasn't just been the US, no, and I am sorry if anyone got the impression that I was insinuating this. Europe is also embracing ideas that should be beyond the pale in a civilised society.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 at 05:24:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Neither did I mean to imply it was only the US. It's global. But what's known as the Overton Window has shifted considerably to the right, not the left, which made your comment look a bit off point to me.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 01:14:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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