European Tribune

Display:
Why not just nationalise the bankrupt firms?

Oh, and impose confiscatory taxes on all wealth above - say - US$ 10 million to get the scum who made off like bandits in this round.

And actually prosecute tax evaders.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 at 08:39:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That sounds good - on paper. The question with nationalization of banks (of any business for that matter) is whether the government can do a better job managing the thing than can private concerns. Past experience teaches us that it can't... really it can't. No matter what the down side of private enterprise is (and there are down sides) - the up side is that it's generally much more efficient than the public sector at producing goods and services and at directing investment.

Regulation is probably better - but that takes time to think through and implement.

Taxing is a great idea - and I certainly think that fiscal policy of western governments doesn't do a good job of redistributing wealth.

by vladimir on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 at 10:49:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a false binary choice though. The banks are not being run well at this moment in time and they are in danger of collapse. The government can run them well enough that nationalising them now and re-privatizing them once the crisis is past is perfectly viable.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 at 11:52:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At this point in time, it's hard for me to imagine the government doing a worse job than the private sector.

Besides, you could nationalise them and do nothing but fire the management, burn the shareholders and force them to be honest about their balance sheets. Instant efficiency gain to the tune of several hundred billion US$/yr on management alone. And if you think that a company can't run fine for a year or two without a board of directors and a CEO, I have a couple of Enron shares I want to sell...

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 at 02:03:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Past experience teaches us that it can't... really it can't."

Which past experience?

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Nov 11th, 2008 at 04:09:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On a macro level:
Soviet? East German? Chinese?

On a micro level in France:
> La Banque Postale as compared to almost any other retail network. RETAIL.
> La Poste? The first thing you want to do when you walk in is ... walk out.
> URSSAF? If you've EVER had to interact with them... you would not think of this public service as a role model of any sort.
> Education nationale? Although I'm all for the concept, I can only deplore the fact that there is a massive exodus of all those who can pay... away from the public to the private sector. Why?
> ...

On a general level:
Competition is what drives innovation.
Innovation is what drives... almost all the benefits mankind has acquired from agriculture, industry & services.

Really. It can't.

by vladimir on Tue Nov 11th, 2008 at 09:56:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's a massive exodus from the public to private sector in French education? that's news ! Considering the private sector has remained at 20% since a very, very long time. And of course, that's considering the catholic schools are actually "private", considering their teachers are paid by the states and their building maintained by the collectivités locales. The actual private sector, that is actually free to hire its teacher and teach what it wants, is less than a percent of French pupils.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2008 at 09:10:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you for providing these statistics, which I wasn't aware of. Wrongly, I based my assumptions on what I have observed throughout the West-Parisian suburbs and the choice that most of my friends with children seem to have opted for over the past 5 or so years.

My children are attending private school since 2006 and I see a difference in the quality of education they are receiving. I think that it's primarily a result of the motivation of the faculty - which is more pronounced in the private system. Two points I'd like to share:

1st: There hasn't been a single strike in the private school my children attend while there have been numerous disruptions in the public system during the same period. I, as a user of the service, appreciate that.

2nd: The expectations set by the faculty are much higher in the private school than they are in the public system. The difference in the amount of homework is truly enormous... which isn't always easy to deal with. But at least we have the impression that our children are being prepared for their future.

Finally, all my 3 kids seem to appreciate going to school more than they did while they were in the public system.

by vladimir on Wed Nov 12th, 2008 at 09:40:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I said, it is hardly an indictment of public services, since such schools practically part of the public system of education, which in France relies too much on segregation ; which can be done within the all-public system (finding a way to get in the best state high school around) or by paying (a rather small sum) to get in a "private" school.

My personal experience, was spending a year in a "private" school, and afterwards going to the local "good" public school ; and life was better for me, and the teachers much better, at the later school.

It strongly depends on what exact neighbourhood you are in ; for example in Neuilly many go in public schools, since those are already socially segregated for all practical purposes.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Nov 12th, 2008 at 09:50:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
why shouldn't teachers be allowed to strike? Nobody strikes for the heck of it; strikes cost money - quite a lot of money. So if the teachers are striking every year, it means that either they are paid too little, or they are using strikes as a political weapon.

In the former case, the solution is to pay them fair wages - then they won't strike. In the latter case, some kind of political compromise must be struck so the teachers do not feel compelled to use such an expensive tool to make their case.

Either way, the blame is not solely - or even, IMHO, primarily - with the teachers.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Nov 12th, 2008 at 10:25:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's always the same story. As a user of a service on strike, it's very annoying. As a participant, a spectator, a political activist,... it's an understandable way to make a statement.

I certainly agree that staff delivering public education services in France are not paid nearly what they deserve to be paid.

Regarding the comment about social segregation which comes automatically with the neighborhood you live in, I actually live in a city with perhaps the highest family income level in the Yvelines (Viroflay). Does that mean that public schools in Viroflay are better than in... Les Mureaux ? From what I understood, French schools are neither managed nor financed at the local level - as they are in the US.

by vladimir on Wed Nov 12th, 2008 at 10:40:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
An important factor of pupil performance is the level of the other pupils. Another is that as teachers get positions on seniority, which means that "quiet" schools end up with older experienced teachers compared to places that are not so quiet. Also, although teachers are financed at the state level, school buildings and many activities are - municipality level for the primary schools, département level for secondary schools. Which usually means more funds for computers, activities during lunch, better financed classes vertes and classes de neige...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Nov 12th, 2008 at 10:50:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Debates
Campaigns
Occasional Series