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Wait, you mean if the treaty actually offers the people something they might vote for it?  Crazy talk.
by paving on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 at 04:58:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is between the Nice Treaty and the Lisbon Treaty, don't you?

Can you tell me in what way exactly the Nice Treaty is better? And how the rejection of the Lisbon Treaty creates a dynamic that helps make things better?

Here's the dirty secret: the neoliberal elite loves the population to be disaffected and vaguely anti-European, because the central institutions of the EU are the only counterweight against deregulation, even today, and everything that decredibilises "Europe" weakens the centra bureaucracy against the lobbies and the politicians that support them.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 at 05:26:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aside from your depressing and pragmatic approach to the issue consider how easy it is for the populations to demand at this time some kind of concessions.  The Lisbon treaty simply does not appeal to a lot of people, for whatever reason.  Yeah, some are idiots but then again there are others who see no real gain in it.  Nice can erode, Lisbon, once enacted, probably cannot.
by paving on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 at 06:40:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
about whether to keep Nice or not. It would be fun to see the "no" campaign run in favor of it. Oh wait, that's not their goal.

Not enacting Lisbon is what erodes Europe - what the "non" campaign is a Europe in crisis, sees as delegitimized. They don't give a dman about the content of the Treatry, only about the process - and they are absolutely right.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 04:44:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With only the slightest tangential similarity, the US Articles of Confederation - the document and organization under which the States fought the Brits - lasted until the Constitution was approved in 1788 with the 9th state granting approval. The last state giving approval was in 1790, 2 and a half years after submission.

And this was about a simple, one page document with a lot of public commentary (most famous being the Federalist Papers) and a promise of a Bill of Rights, which was fulfilled partially a couple years later, as the wikipedia article states:

Articles III to XII were ratified by 11/14 states (> 75%). Article I, rejected by Delaware, was ratified only by 10/14 States (< 75%), and despite later ratification by Kentucky (11/15 states < 75%), the article has never since received the approval of enough states for it to become part of the Constitution. Article II was ratified by 6/14, later 7/15 states, but did not receive the 3/4 majority of States needed for ratification until 1992 when it became the 27th Amendment.



Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 06:40:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem with that narrative is that the central institutions of the EU has been one of the major forces for neo-liberal deregulation since, well, 1992.

Where's Miguel and his "Brussels Consensus" diary when you need it?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 06:07:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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