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There would be more to redistribute, if Ireland had higher taxes. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but I have read Ireland has 12.5% corporate tax rate. 25% as a minimum corporate tax rate in the EU would be appropriate. The large countries would likely be still above that.

After all the big advantage for the small countries to be part of the EU, is to have a barrier free access to a market of large scale. For big countries this is a smaller issue. Small countries have the advantage to attract capital with special regulation. Large countries lose their protection from regulatory competition by abolishing barriers. They should get something as compensation - a selfbinding of the smaller countries not to stretch this regulation advantage to much. Initially most of the smaller countries were much poorer than the large countries. Maybe therefore one didn't want to attach too many strings to EU membership. But once the catch up process is done, there should be such rules (more pronounced for Luxembourg than for Ireland, however).

The regional redistribution in France is not a beggar thy neighbor policy. The EU would be better off with somewhat higher corporate taxes and on gov't level pay some of that money out to the periphery than with low taxes for foreign investors. It would be more honest in a way as well. Unfortunately many people don't see that the wealth of all smaller countries in Europe (OK, except Norway) is due to a voluntary cooperation of the larger countries, that are much less dependent on the existence of the EU.
Market competition is for enterprises and people, not for states. The referee shouldn't play the game instead of the players.

Gemach, gemach

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 01:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All arguable, and all arguments made at the time of Ireland's accession and subsequent negotiations.  Ireland has also lost exclusive access to huge fisheries resources.  Market access would be available under EFTA in any case and doesn't require EU access per se.  Your arguments about larger countries having in built advantages reinforces the point of smaller countries having structural disadvantages.

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 01:35:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But when the Irish corporate tax rate was raised as an issue in the US presidential campaign, it came out that US corporate tax incidence is lower than in Ireland, despite the higher rate ... I wouldn't know the corporate tax incidence in the various EU nations, but that is the more appropriate comparison.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 02:11:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not a tax expert, but as far as I know there are no loopholes - you can't pay less than 12.5% - whereas in other countries with higher rates there are often many ways of avoiding tax to the point that some companies pay none.  So we would need a comparison of effective, or actual taxes paid as a proportion of total corporate profits.  Before you can talk about tax rate harmonisation you have to talk about a standardisation of the ways taxes are applied.

PS McCain repeated referred to Ireland having a 11% rate - and as far as I could see none of the fact checkers corrected him.  But then Ireland never mattered in the debate - it was used for rhetorical purposes only, and McCain was obviously not aware we were in a recession.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 03:15:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not a tax expert, but as far as I know there are no loopholes - you can't pay less than 12.5%

I'll take your for it, but in any case the 12.5% issue is just a red herring. The insufficiently acknowledged issue is this:

Morning business news - May 2

Accounts for Microsoft Ireland Research, an Irish subsidiary of the global software giant, show that the company paid just €460,000 in tax, on profits of more than €1.2 billion last year, by using provisions in Irish tax law to take its corporation tax bill down from €158m. Much of Microsoft's international profits are channelled through Ireland, but because the main company for Microsoft's activities has unlimited liability, it does not have to file detailed accounts.

That is an effect tax rate of <0.0004%. I am in no doubt that Microsoft would quite happily pay a corporate tax rate of 100% (EUR 3.68m) as long as it could continue to avail of the other attractive "provisions". Ireland accepts pittance; other countries get shafted.

by det on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 02:40:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
effect = effective

and the missing word is ... "word".

by det on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 02:46:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well if your quote is correct, then it negates my point about effective tax rates.  It's possible that they have been able to write off some revenues against "research", or something like that - I don't know the rules.

The larger point, also made by Humbug and BruceMcF below, is that "transfer pricing" allows companies to declare profits where they will be taxed least.  Thus the Irish Microsoft Research unit could charge other parts of Microsoft huge fees for research done in Ireland - thus reducing tax exposure in high tax environments, and increasing it in low tax environments.

I have do doubt that, long term, a global system of corporate taxation must evolve - to avoid creating tax shelters like the Cayman's and to avoid providing incentives to distort revenues as above. The first step must be to create common accountancy standards for the taxable base to be calculated, and the next step would then be to gradually harmonise the tax rates.  

Provided peripheral/underdeveloped countries are provided some means of playing catchup or creating a more level playing field, I have to problem with this being done.  However it would require a huge Brettoon Woods like global agreement, with the threat of exclusion from the global trading system for all countries which fail to comply.

This was unthinkable under Bush, and probably under Obama - because it will be presented as socialism on a world scale.  Global Capitalism will fight it tooth and nail.  I don't expect to see it in my lifetime, but you never know.  Obama may surprise us all.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 01:07:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's great. They have been reported to pay no taxes in Germany, too. Surely they ought to be awarded a patent for this business idea?

Long ago, there were rules against this moving around of profits; evidently, our glorious government has conveniently found a way to forget them.

Now at last we understand why the customs need to search us for euros we could want to smuggle. When will they come for our golden teeth?

by Humbug (mailklammeraffeschultedivisstrackepunktde) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 05:14:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There may be formal rules against moving around profits, but as long as there is unfettered ability to shift financial wealth across national borders, there will always be a way around those rules.

Even with a return to regulating international wealth flows, with half or more of "world trade" as transactions between branches of the same multinational corporation, there's ample opportunity to set transaction prices that make sure the profits appear where it is most beneficial for them to appear.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 11:15:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That depends very much on how sharp teeth you give your tax authorities. Besides, you can just tax turnover instead of profits. I'm sure that has some undesirable effects, but if the alternative is to leave gargantuan loopholes in the tax code... I guess we'll just have to live with those side effects.

And anyway, in a regulatory environment where anti-trust laws were actually taken seriously, most of those transnats would very quickly end up with a severe case of being dead.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 at 11:28:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
[W]ith half or more of "world trade" as transactions between branches of the same multinational corporation, there's ample opportunity to set transaction prices that make sure the profits appear where it is most beneficial for them to appear.

The mentioned rules addressed exactly these concerns.
by Humbug (mailklammeraffeschultedivisstrackepunktde) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 at 05:06:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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