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Absence of religion is called atheism. Atheism can be viewed as an ideology when the atheist tells the believer that all religion is a delusion. There is no vacuum in this material world. We always believe in one thing or the other.

As long as we are so full of our selves as we all are, there will be ideologies - some that many share with others and others that individuals bring forward and that will reflect who they are (their identity) - their past, present and future - aspirations, hopes and fears, idealism, experiences, culture, family, nation, faith, etc.

Ideologies can range from nihilism to extreme religious/political fanaticism.

I agree that in a time of global crisis at different levels (foremost economic and environmental), classic ideologies have lost some of their (original) significance because the slow reflection on how to persuade others to do things best (according to our own ideals, good and bad) has given way to pragmatism (quick solutions to urgent problems).

While some compare ideologies, others decide, put efficiency (quick results, regardless of long-term effect) first  and move on without caring about such details. This new pragmatism (or realpolitik) is an ideology that just IS. No one consciously decided on accepting it. It's an ideology that spreads so fast that many have become unaware of what it really is - not the death of ideology but an ideology that is about to become (has become?) this World's second nature.

 

by Lily (put - lilyalmond - here <a> yahaah.france) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 05:43:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Realpolitik has always been the default ideology. There have always been implicit balances between castes and tribal groups, but the balances shift only on the basis that idea that one group wins while others lose.

It takes effort to shift a culture in a different direction.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 06:01:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Atheism can be viewed as an ideology when the atheist tells the believer that all religion is a delusion.

It could be, would such views be singular and form a coherent system ("worldview"). As it happens, such views of religion are part of (or even just: result of) a great variety of worldviews.

This is a basic failure of such discourse, an erection of a false dichotomy. In fact the other side of that dichotomy, theism, is not a religion/worldview either -- it is a general class of a multitude of religions/worldviews.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 06:55:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You say that a general class of a multitude of worldviews or religions doesn't qualify as an ideology. In other words you have to define a given ideology, and when you speak from there or impose your ideological views on others, then you'll have an ideology whereas some general world view - that could have the same impact and be even more powerful - does not qualify as such.

I maintain that there are plenty of powerful constructs just as "pragmatism" that can or should be qualified as an ideology. Has anybody written a book about the new ideology of pragmatism and given it a name? If not, it still doesn't make it less of an ideology than the teachings of the Latter Day Saints or Marxism though we're unconscious followers of this new pragmatism.

This may be the 'erection of a false dichotomy' because of how you define it but I still believe that the idea is right.

Americans elected Barack Obama because they believed in having a choice. He will now direct the course of US politics but he won't do so alone. As all Presidents he will rely heavily on his advisers, and he is also going to seek support and advice from the "opposition". In fact, his approach is going to be pragmatic above all else; defending US (home and foreign) interests, and opposing views will become fewer in view of "the crisis". - Americans elected a President who they expected to best be able to solve the crisis. The only significant ideology opposing this raw pragmatism came from the Christian right. -
Sarkzoy was also elected for pragmatic reasons.

This ideology is "in the air" and people drink it in like they probably wouldn't if they were given a definition and time and incentives to reflect upon it. It seems there is no choice.

by Lily (put - lilyalmond - here <a> yahaah.france) on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 04:03:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Would that thirst be the result of some ideological saturation? Or because people would be more and more hedonist, egocentric, thus caring less and less about what others try to indoctrinate them with, and so freeing the road for hands-on approaches as opposed to "lunatic" ones?

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 06:03:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe that this is not a question of "lunatics" versus "hands-on" people. It is not a question of the right winning over the left. Ideology hasn't been overcome, but the debate about it becomes mere lunatism when the right (or left) adopts methods and ideas and agents of the left (or right). The 'here and now' is so strong that it attracts all sides of the spectrum.

When this happens, what is the role of the opposition, any opposition? They hinder the natural response as dictated by pragmatism. They become lunatics, not much else. The DOERS will listen when it serves the larger cause ("survive the crisis" - whatever that may mean) and the rest, they will ignore.

This is not the death of ideology but this new 'ideology' may call for a new name. It is driven by the same force as globalisation - resisted by many. It is nurtured by fear (of terrorism), and ultimately everyone will acknowledge the need to react in face of global recession and serious environmental issues.

   

by Lily (put - lilyalmond - here <a> yahaah.france) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 05:13:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Comment responses
I believe that this is not a question of "lunatics" versus "hands-on" people.

correct...the nth straw man V has dragged in for burning.

i'll give you one thing, V, you're one hellacious hairsplitter!
lol
:)

great comments lily, and welcome to the funny farm.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 at 07:06:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are both quite beside the point, if I may ! :)

Sorry for "lunatics", in case it bothered anyone - just a borrowed word to emphasize an opposition, I didn't mean any Eurotrib valuable members!
The question was, would people be fed up with ideologies, or just bored with'em, in their oh so modern hedonistic consumerism!  

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 at 07:33:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Although thinking better, lunatics can be used for utopists, or people following long reaching ideals. It's not necessarily a mean word - just like deportation isn't, right. Or hellacious splitter. Who could bear a sloppy society, with ideas rolling down from Mountain Tops like BLOCKS of ROCKS!

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 at 07:37:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
never fear V, you'll always be there to test them for purity before rolling them up again!

i for one, feel enormously safer for your efforts.

:)

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 at 08:09:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No one begged any of you guys to come commenting, actually - a few well crafted slogans would have sufficed to this provocateur :)

(but then yourself only bothered with straw men - wazzarealmotive! some rightwing scheme for sure; nevermind then: you, I won't protect! :) )

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 at 08:29:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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