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Sarkozy is certainly not "socialist", just like he isn't the dangerous, hard right bad wolf he was framed to be in the electoral campaign.

He was a demagogue then (focusing on the anti-immigrant "toughness" rhteoric and dog-whistles) and he is a demagogue now. What else is new.

Call is pragmatism if you will. I'll call it opportunism and spin. Say it's ideology on my side if you care to.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 at 05:43:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anti-immigrant toughness...  see, this is an example of pragmatism, actually.

For the Left, there are two possible positions: pro or against immigrants, both of them ideological.
For a realist, there are two indisputable facts:
one, that most immigrants are poor and ghetto-ised;
the other, that most citizens in poor or immigrant areas cannot stand any more barbarian actions.

None of these facts are ideological, they are there, on the field. There actually is a minority of barbarians, hence need for public safety measures.
There actually is poverty and precarious life, so aid should be provided, and at the same time illegal and family immigration diminished.

This is pure reality and rational approach.
You see this as rightwing because you probably consider any discussion about safety as such. Thing is, there actually is insecurity, that's not an invention of the rightwing to scare people into voting them in.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 at 05:51:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A realist would say that there are "indisputable facts":

  1. one, that the first insecurity most poor people face is economic insecurity, and that you don't solve that by making work more "flexible" (ie giving the freedom to corporations to pay people less, fire them more easily, and impose inconvenient worktimes);

  2. two that immigrants in addition to being discriminated against by their looks in the pursuit of jobs and other activities, are scapegoated and (conveniently) blamed for the economic insecurity that other lower class people feel;

None of these facts are ideological, they are there, on the field. There actually is a minority of barbarians (demagogic politicians and employers willing to exploit vulnerable populations), hence need for public safety measures.

There actually is poverty and precarious life, so aid should be provided, and at the same time illegal use by bosses of immigrant workforces to lower wages should be pursued.

This is pure reality and rational approach.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 at 06:04:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You have made a good point.

I am against unlimited overtime work, against blackmarket jobs, and I am all for ordering bosses to pay more!

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 at 06:14:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thing is, there actually is insecurity,

What, then, am I to make of things when I can look at the statistics and find almost no correlation between how insecure people feel as measured by opinion polls, and how insecure people actually are, as measured by reported crime rates?

What am I to make of the fact that people are more concerned about terrorism than about drunk driving?

I haven't run the numbers, but I strongly suspect that there is a much stronger correlation between the viewership/circulation of Murdoch "news" outlets and fear of crime and terrorism than between actual acts of crime and terrorism and the fear thereof. You may balk at calling this propaganda, but then I'd like to know what it is...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 10:40:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Terrorism is a diffuse issue that frightens a lot, and particularly so as it remains hidden.

Insecurity in poor immigrant neighbourhoods is more real than that, and the talk was about the fear of people who live there.
At least, I am not aware of any stats pointing to a discrepancy between fear and crime rate in that precise case.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 05:13:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The people in poor immigrant neighbourhoods overwhelmingly don't vote for "tough-on-crime" "anti-immigrant" politicians, though...

And terrorism is a non-issue. In the last decade we've had what? ten terrorist attacks against civilian American and European targets? Twenty? The median terrorist attack clocks in at a couple of hundred dead and wounded - the mean a bit more, but not excessively so.

Against the next best thing to a billion people.

That's less than a thousandth of a percent mortality and morbidity from terrorism. Influenza kills and maims more people every year because shabby health care systems fail to vaccinate at-risk demographics than terrorism kills and maims every decade.

It's a non-issue.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 06:00:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But it is made into an issue. It is put out there and framed as something the public should be concerned about. It is constructed as a social problem.

Now who is leading that debate and producing that type of rhetoric?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 06:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well airplane accidents also are far less fatal than car accidents. Still you see the effects of one and the measures taken to avoid them. ALl a matter of perception.

Terrorism has been made into an issue by the neocon administration as a way to grab power.

People's voting reasons are more than just street safety. Certain places also became areas where the rule of law is suspended. In these conditions, voting reasons become a more complicate thing than just left/right. We can even discuss the view people have about democracy in certain places.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 06:36:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Define "take measures." Measures are not taken to avoid airplane accidents which include having the secret police go through the airlines' confidential computer systems to look for cost-cutting on maintenance. Airline executives are not picked up by the secret police and put in a dark hole for months on vague, non-specific charges that the secret police suspects that they may be tampering with the safety margins on their airline's planes. The very notion is absurd. Yet such measures are taken against "terrorists" (read: Random brown people).

And airline safety wasn't high on the agenda in the last couple of election campaigns that I witnessed either, so the attention paid to it seems far more in line with the magnitude of the actual problem.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 07:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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