Display:
There are some Marxists here, or here. They discuss the financial crisis, or climate change and such.

Wouldn't you count the classical socialdemocracy as an off-spin of Marxism? Up till the "third way" 1990s, certain Marxist awareness was still there. If Lenin's bolsheviks would not had taken the call to revolution that seriously (in barely capitalist Russia, of all places), Marx's legacy in the 20th Century would probably had been very different.

Ideologies (as world perspectives) are not dead really. Instead, a strong selection towards public awareness is taking place, especially now, once the "only" Soviet alternative is defeated. Only those ideologies that fit social legitimation needs of power/wealth holders are promoted, while others are ignored or ridiculed. This period is special by the degree of control of ideology selection. But once consensi of G20 dinners and intimidation of free tanks would cease, more various ideas will be discussed.

by das monde on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 11:29:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd definitely call it a logical outgrowth of Marx/Engels. Ditto for Stalinism or Maoism. Marx wrote a lot, not of all it consistent or perfectly clear, and a majority of it more descriptive than prescriptive. Times changed, ideologies changed.

But then I also think that one of Marxism's problems has traditionally been a certain tendency among it's adherents to treat Marx as a Prophet and his writing as scripture. I far prefer the notion of him as one of the nineteenth century's greatest thinkers who revolutionized how we think of society and spawned a political movement. At least that's what I think his relevance is today.

by MarekNYC on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 12:04:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I see Stalin first of all of a practitioner - the implementer of the Marxist-Leninist thread in the "real world". (As opposed to Hitler, who was more a "theorist" but supported by some "practical" industrial-financial classes). Mao copied quite a lot on Stalin's understanding of proletariat dictatorship. Both Stalin and Mao consolidated their powers following historical examples of their own countries (aka Ivan the Terrible, etc)

Apart from compulsory (and rather formal) indoctrination by Soviet education and politicization, what would be examples of Marx's adherents treating him as a Prophet?

 

by das monde on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 03:11:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I basically agree with you on Stalin - I was simply seeking to illustrate the other extreme of Marxism in practice.

On Marx as prophet and his writings as scriptures though, I stand by my point. If you look at the debates during the Second International period in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, or those within the SPD during Weimar, there is a strong tendency among the participants to argue from Marx rather than from a broader perspective. That is, you'd get ideas 'refuted' by saying that they went against this or that in Marx's writings, rather than a genuine counterargument. Then there's the whole teleological aspect of the Marxist narrative. There I feel that Marx himself bears quite a bit of blame. All in all, Marxists seemed to often forget that Marx was just a human being who lived in a certain period of time, a brilliant one, but without psychic powers and quite capable of being wrong.

by MarekNYC on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 01:04:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I clicked on the links.

Gould and Buchanan seem to be adopting Engels especially for their science fights.

The problem with capitalism is that it has been adopted all over the world. Once ingrained systemically, the transition to alternatives seems like a bit of fantasy.

I recognize that it is but one ideology, and yet its pervasiveness and ability to adapt and encumber resistant movements make it all the more formidable. Capitalism seems better able to accommodate a critique of metaphysics in the wake of Marx.

Again, the most well-known Neo-Marxist theorists have pushed Marxist thought into our century, and yet they recognize the dominance of the capitalist model as being so pervasive not because it's the better one (necessarily), but because of its evident entrenchment. That doesn't mean there aren't other models out there, communal, etc. It just means that those models are, for all purposes, impractical at the moment, and any chance they have of becoming dominant is usually rooted in the complete collapse and total failure of capitalism. Which won't do much for the proletariat, I suppose.

by Upstate NY on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 12:38:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The pervasiveness of modern libertarian capitalism is not necessarily deep. It's only some 15 years ago that the privatization fever (or utility, transportation, communication services) started in Western Europe.

The biggest obstacle for alternative views is the "self-interest" of leading industrial and political classes, I think. They pushing forward this libertarism as de facto social legitimation. The power-holding classes made quite a progress in the recent decade in accumulating a critical mass of economic and political power. By now they are almost autonomous from the masses (and any "dangerous" ideas).

Several aspects of ideological isolation dynamics can be found in Naomi Klein's book "The shock doctrine". I will give two examples from there:

  1. Prior to Pinochet's (and similar) coups in Southern America, the developing countries there were quite on their own way of building their societies and economies, independent on either Moscow's socialism or Washington's capitalism. The governments were pro-active and positively interested in building egalitarian social structures. Naomi Klein even uncovered a letter of Kissinger, where he expressed urge to intervene not because the Allende government was terribly pro-Soviet, but because it was building a more attractive alternative economic system. The South American coups resulted in quite a genocide of any leftist sentiments. (But now South Americans apparently build some autonomous anti-libertarian relations anyway.)

  2. Friedman's economic theory had a marginal academic status until the 1960-1970s, until Wallstreet-backed think-tanks started to support his convenient Chicago school handsomely. Their academic status still rose very slowly, but they were very active in recruiting and educating students from developing countries (from Chile, especially). They took full initiative with Reagan and Teacher. After they "took over" IMF and the World Bank policies, libertarian ideology was offered as the "Washington consensus"  all over the world, from Bolivia to Poland and Russia, from Mandela's South Africa to "pragmatist" China.

This pervasiveness of libertarian ideology might turn out to be a relatively short episode, after all.
by das monde on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 03:50:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let me be clear here about Friedman. I'm not talking about Friedman's models. If Friedman never existed, we'd still have capitalism.

If you look at late capitalism today, especially it's global character, the dismantling of this system would cause such upheaval, especially when it comes to distribution of energy resources and food, that many hundreds of millions would die, if not billions.

It's so systemically entrenched at a global level that a move to another system is the equivalent of radiation therapy to remove a cancer.

Here and there, there may be alternative models, but globally it seems to be the model most countries have adopted.

by Upstate NY on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 08:44:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This flavor of capitalism is not to last long. Although it may repeat itself after 70 years or so. (The magic 70 years - exactly the time for a generation to be born and die out.)

This global capitalism is a problem, in all its unsustainability. The world we know is dismantling before our eyes.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine...

I am not talking about imposing other global order. I do not recommend any particular global order at all. In contrary - global top-to-down economic solutions must be resisted. To survive this economic crash, every country, community must have freedom to make decisions of its own. Someone would strike then ingenious solutions very probably. That's why plurality of ideologies is welcome now.

I wish this capitalism to retain most of its structure and buzzing network as it can. But the global system must be open to voluntary unscripted adaptations of its parts. What is not welcome is to let clubs of G20-lite leaders of wealth and power holders to decide everything. That would likely to lead to reversing all social evolution of the last 120 years, back to "Oliver Twist" scale gaps between haves and havenots.

by das monde on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 at 08:31:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series