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Words are the canopial tips of semantic trees in a forest of different meanings. Words in phrases often create metaphors, analogues and similes that are hints to how statements might be interpreted or thought about.

To say that 'atheism is a religion' is, like the curate's egg, only good in parts. The full phrase, were it a hint, would be something like 'Think about atheism as a religion'. Saying that one thing is another is different from saying think about one being the other.

There is a fuzziness involved in the latter that some of us enjoy, and some of us don't. Some of us like riddles, some don't.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 12:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like a nice riddle.  And I appreciate the ambiguity.  And I am even able to conceive of atheism as a religion and pragmatism as an ideology.  Everything is matter of degrees; absolutes on paper rarely are in practice.  But when I think of ideology and pragmatism, it seems, to me, in practice, the former gives more weight to the nobility of an idea, and the latter, to the measurable effects of an idea.  Ideologies contain an implicit assumption that they are valid, whereas pragmatism has to prove itself valid.  As I've seen illustrated in this thread, ideologies resent event being questioned.  Forget that unions all over America are epic failures - unions are good, and how dare we question that?  Ideologies are like religions - they tend  to resist changing to incorporate new realities.  And if you suggest they do, someone is going to call you a heathen.  Look at Milton Friedman.  The idea was beautiful in its perfection.  Almost destroyed the whole world.  Must have been something else - such a beautiful idea could not have cause such suffering.  Unless suffering was part of the plan.  Yeah - that's it.   People must sacrifice themselves for the vitality of a beautiful idea.  All of the isms and religions may find their way to this inevitable point.  I, myself, think that if we are entering an age where a beautiful idea can be sacrificed for the vitality of the people, that's probably a good thing.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 01:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was going to agree with all of your above - until you mentioned 'beauty' ;-)

Now there's a word looking for a refreshed definition...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:01:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, you know that was difficult to write, too...   I'm playing my own Devil's advocate.

FWIW, I'm using a Schillerian (that's not even a word, I am sure) definition of beauty.  Which I think is quite sufficient.  I'm an ideologue like that.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:12:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As long as you know what it means....;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 03:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In my diary update, I gave the example of the free market ideology in the form of an interview of Eliot Spitzer in Washington Post yesterday.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 05:08:19 PM EST
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