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Socialists fear civil war after Royal defeat - Times Online

Civil war loomed among France's feuding Socialists after a party leadership ballot ended yesterday in a virtual dead heat between the two female contenders amid accusations of cheating and calls for a rerun.

Martine Aubry, the 58-year-old mayor of Lille, declared victory by a margin of only 42 votes that was immediately contested by Ségolène Royal, her bitter rival, who demanded another ballot.

The official results gave Aubry, a former minister, 50.02% of the 134,784 votes cast by party members, compared with 49.98% for the 55-year-old Royal, the party's presidential candidate last year.

Royal's supporters complained of "irregularities", vowing to challenge the result. "We contest these results," said Julien Dray, an MP and Royal backer. "There are things that don't add up. The only possible solution is another vote."

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 01:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Times does not exagerate the situation. The two sides are digging in and the end-result will leave a lot of bitterness, whichever it is.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 02:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought it's a bit unfair to Times journalists to attach the "Murdoch alert" to everything they write, especially to a fairly straight-forward bit of reporting like this. As you said - I think ? - to ValentinD dismissing something because it was in Canard Enchainé, one should criticise the argument not just the fact of the source.  

Anyway, sad situation.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 05:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's very little "straightforward recporting" in the Times (or any other Murdoch paper) about France.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 06:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Then condemn the bad bits for their bad arguments, not blanket condemnation because of the source. CF; your argument re C.E.  As you said, this report does not exaggerate.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:43:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The warning serves, indeed, as a warning to exert one's critical sense when reading what comes out of Murdoch's press ; not blanket condemnation.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:46:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's rather a patronising assumption that we need to be told to "exert one's critical sense when reading" ? Don't you normally do that when reading ?

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 09:39:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Patronising on the part of whom? As dvx said, this usage was established a while ago after discussion and (before you) had consensus support.

Secondly, it's not telling people to exercise critical thought. It's reminding them (and they are not all retired British teachers who know this perfectly well) that the once-prestigious Times is no longer a newspaper of record but part of the Murdoch empire.

Hey, and it also makes some people smile! :-)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 09:51:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The fact that I'm not in agreement with the consensus doesn't worry me - should we have a "consensus approved alert" too ? :-)

I still think it encourages prejudice rather than critical thinking.

"What is needed is not the courage of one's convictions, but the courage for an attack on one's convictions."  Nietzsche

So more useful might "One of our pals - be especially critical - alert"  :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 01:48:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Murdoch Alert is attached to the Murdoch press. The only stigma individual journalists incur is one they don't appear too worried about, namely, that they're willing to work for an empire that has, efficiently and tenaciously, done a great deal since the mid-twentieth century to displace the centre of public discourse towards the right.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 02:46:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd still rather judge each piece quoted here on its merits - not be encouraged to dismiss it because it's by "evildoers" :-) As I've said before, Chomsky, for all his criticism of mainstream media, acknowledges that within the beast some good reporters manage to get worthwhile stories through from time to time, even in the WSJ. He gives them credit for doing so and cites useful stuff from them, without giving one a warning each time.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:52:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd still rather judge each piece quoted here on its merits

I can't imagine you're being prevented from doing that.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 05:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Read on a few words - not "prevented" but "encouraged to dismiss it." How about a more general - "Capitalist media alert" ?  Or "Source we don't approve alert" :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 09:35:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
IIRC, the decision to tag the Times with the Murdoch Alert was the product of a very broad discussion here.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:53:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This will greatly benefit Besancenot
by paving on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 03:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sarkozy, who, ValentinB notwithstanding, has done all he could to help the NPA (Nouveau Parti Anticapitaliste) get started, because he ses it as an easier adversary to beat in 2012.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 06:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sarkozy is welcome to do so.  It may well backfire on him.  Besancenot is no Le Pen.
by paving on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 09:18:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Besancenot isn't one quarter as politically astute as Le Pen.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 02:49:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Le Pen had decades to learn, but he is inherently repellant.  Not so with the red mailman.  Or did I miss an era where Le Pen was polling approvingly with a large percentage of the population?
by paving on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:39:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure B. has that much of a chance; I read that Sarko sees him and his party more as a helpful means of splitting the Left vote.


Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:54:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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