European Tribune - Comments - European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 24. November | 122 comments (122 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

The Times does not exagerate the situation. The two sides are digging in and the end-result will leave a lot of bitterness, whichever it is.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 02:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In this case, sadly (none / 1)

I thought it's a bit unfair to Times journalists to attach the "Murdoch alert" to everything they write, especially to a fairly straight-forward bit of reporting like this. As you said - I think ? - to ValentinD dismissing something because it was in Canard Enchainé, one should criticise the argument not just the fact of the source.

Anyway, sad situation.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 05:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It provides context (none / 0)

There's very little "straightforward recporting" in the Times (or any other Murdoch paper) about France.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 06:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It provides context (none / 0)

Then condemn the bad bits for their bad arguments, not blanket condemnation because of the source. CF; your argument re C.E. As you said, this report does not exaggerate.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:43:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It provides context (none / 1)

The warning serves, indeed, as a warning to exert one's critical sense when reading what comes out of Murdoch's press ; not blanket condemnation.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:46:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It provides context (none / 0)

It's rather a patronising assumption that we need to be told to "exert one's critical sense when reading" ? Don't you normally do that when reading ?

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 09:39:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It provides context (none / 1)

Patronising on the part of whom? As dvx said, this usage was established a while ago after discussion and (before you) had consensus support.

Secondly, it's not telling people to exercise critical thought. It's reminding them (and they are not all retired British teachers who know this perfectly well) that the once-prestigious Times is no longer a newspaper of record but part of the Murdoch empire.

Hey, and it also makes some people smile! :-)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 09:51:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It provides context (none / 0)

The fact that I'm not in agreement with the consensus doesn't worry me - should we have a "consensus approved alert" too ? :-)

I still think it encourages prejudice rather than critical thinking.

"What is needed is not the courage of one's convictions, but the courage for an attack on one's convictions." Nietzsche

So more useful might "One of our pals - be especially critical - alert" :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 01:48:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In this case, sadly (none / 0)

The Murdoch Alert is attached to the Murdoch press. The only stigma individual journalists incur is one they don't appear too worried about, namely, that they're willing to work for an empire that has, efficiently and tenaciously, done a great deal since the mid-twentieth century to displace the centre of public discourse towards the right.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 02:46:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In this case, sadly (none / 0)

I'd still rather judge each piece quoted here on its merits - not be encouraged to dismiss it because it's by "evildoers" :-) As I've said before, Chomsky, for all his criticism of mainstream media, acknowledges that within the beast some good reporters manage to get worthwhile stories through from time to time, even in the WSJ. He gives them credit for doing so and cites useful stuff from them, without giving one a warning each time.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:52:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In this case, sadly (none / 0)

I'd still rather judge each piece quoted here on its merits

I can't imagine you're being prevented from doing that.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 05:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In this case, sadly (none / 0)

Read on a few words - not "prevented" but "encouraged to dismiss it." How about a more general - "Capitalist media alert" ? Or "Source we don't approve alert" :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 09:35:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In this case, sadly (none / 0)

IIRC, the decision to tag the Times with the Murdoch Alert was the product of a very broad discussion here.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 04:53:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 24. November | 122 comments (122 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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