European Tribune

Display:
European Tribune - THE LEFT, THE RIGHT, THEISM AND THE POLITICAL DEBATE (Ideology alive)
This is my ideology. It comes closest to not being an ideology but objective truth

I must say I find this a rather remarkable assertion.

If I understand you correctly you are asserting the all-but-absolute correctness of your world view on the basis of your spirituality - which is perhaps the most subjective human perception imaginable.

I have no wish denigrate your spirituality, or anyone else's; we each of us find meaning where we may. But by declaring your own (and by implication the values that derive therefrom) to be as close to objective truth as is possible for a human to attain, you are in effect denying the validity of my spirituality (or in my personal case, the right to deny my personal spirituality where it conflicts with rationality).

It would seem to me that your elevation or your spirituality to objective truth implicitly invalidates the views and opinions of all those who don't share that spirituality.

And that doesn't leave much room for discourse.

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 05:37:47 AM EST
;)

Despite this assertion, I sincerely respect anyone who comes to different conclusions and finds a different truth.

I am not the Truth, I am not God. When we stand on the Moon and find ourselves on a side of the moon so that we'll have an unobstructed view of Planet Earth, we might see Australia and New Zealand very clearly. We may proclaim: We have seen Planet Earth. This is The Truth.

But there may be another person, standing on the other side of the Moon, marvelling at all the stars around, or someone might have seen Planet Earth, clearly identifying the shape of a boot. ... None will be "wrong" or "better" than the other.

I don't deny anyone the right to not see or to see differently, but since I have seen, I'm confident that I've seen some of that Truth, not all of it, and it doesn't entitle me to anything and it doesn't invalidate anything anybody else sees or doesn't see.

I was speaking of "objective truth" - which will never be proven or disproven in its objectivity in this life, and it's always just one aspect of it, too... I tried to express both my subjective conviction and also my own humbleness in view of the fact that I'm talking about personal faith, not scientific fact.

Maybe you are standing on the other side of the Moon (no judgement implied!!). If I then talk about what I have seen and you insist that you don't share that view, well, then I could come over to your side and agree that there is nothing, or I could invite you over to my side and show you... - And if we do nothing, the stars and the Moon and the Earth may also work together and offer a different outlook to both of us. You might say: Ah, it's there! - And I might say: I had been so sure it was there; now, where has it gone?

No two pairs of eyes will ever see the same, even when they look at the exact same thing in the exact same moment. ...

by Lily (courriel lilyalmond airbase ya-hoo point france) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 06:49:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess I have a problem with your use of the word "objective", as it runs counter the generally accepted meaning:

WordNet Search - 3.0

S: (adj) objective, nonsubjective (undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena) "an objective appraisal"; "objective evidence"

To describe an "objective truth" as one "which will never be proven or disproven" is thus a contradiction.

Again, it is not my intention to judge or even comment upon your spirituality, which is your subjective truth. But qualifying it as "objective" carries an implication which I am not sure you intend, namely that your subjective spiritual truth is valid for all of us.

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 09:21:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for challenging me.

"objective... based on observable phenomena" - Well, yes, I do believe that there will be observable phenomena delivering evidence to the truth that I'm convinced of (though probably not in this life). If it wasn't that way, I wouldn't be convinced but in doubt.

I believe that we have been conditioned to fear anything that others will call absolute. When it is absolute, it must be valid for everyone - and it will eventually entitle others to impose it on everyone else, too, or everyone else will sense that if objective and absolute truth is somewhere out there, it is where everyone MUST inevitably go. Well, no.

I don't OWN the truth. If it's intriguing to you that I'm bold enough to speak not only of my but the truth and you vaguely sense that there might be something of interest in there, it is up to you to be curious about it or bothered with it or to ignore it altogether.
No one will ever be judged according to what I have found to be true.

The reason I have written this diary has been for one that I needed to get it out of my system and put it down in writing. I also wanted my views to be challenged, and introduce myself because I'm more at home in spiritual matters than in the right-left-paradigm which will inevitably occasionally shine through in my comments.

 

by Lily (courriel lilyalmond airbase ya-hoo point france) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 at 10:31:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Recommended Diaries
New Zealand and Australia photo blog (graphics heavy)
by MillMan - Jan 8
25 comments

Belated Prague Photoblog (graphics heavy)
by In Wales - Jan 7
22 comments

Gaza - Israel Denounced by Red Cross
by shergald - Jan 8
10 comments

Early Friday Photography Blog No. 69
by In Wales - Jan 8
10 comments

Marginalia: China is Doomed.
by MarketTrustee - Jan 7
10 comments

On France 24
by Jerome a Paris - Jan 7
136 comments

LQD: UK State Bank
by yacker - Jan 8
2 comments

Sun Tzu on Gaza
by gmoke - Jan 7
13 comments

Debates
Campaigns
Occasional Series