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Unfortunately there do seem to be a fair few of them. I don't necessarily mean these deranged hate-mongers or even their fan clubs but those who have been brought up in feminism 2.0 (essentialism) that reigned from 1972(-ish) through till the early 90s and who retain the same anti-trans prejudices bindel trots out every so often. I know that there are many forms of feminism, and it also varies considerably given cultural values, but this is what I experience.

A good example of that variation is that essentialism was never the dominnant form of feminism in the US as it was in the UK. I say that despite the annual hoo-hah of Michigan womyn's music fest. I suspect it happened because women in the US had different equality battles to fight which shaped the politics that drove it. Also essentialism had been largely discredited by race theory in the 60s and so feminists there never really took on the intensely ideological identity politics that happened here where mangled socialism based essentialist separatism gained a stranglehold.

So my experience is with my feminist peer group in the UK, where casual prejudice against trans is widespread. The transphobic journalist J. Bindel gets her credibility by writing for this group. It is funny that so many criticised m Andrea, even if two of them supported her prejudice but felt able to criticise the way she said it (like, thanks) Yet support from feminists when we were criticising Bindel was rare because they felt that trans-people shouldn't criticise bindel cos she's a vaulable feminist voice in the mainstream. I mean seriously...? how is that not a cis-privileged argument ? It's the equivalent of saying "Shut up you noisy trannie or we'll stop pretending to treat you like an equal". Course it could be an age group thing, younger feminists of third wave persuasion have less time for transphobic prejudice, but they also tend to wave it by as not being "their concern".

I'll believe I'm beginning to be accepted by feminists when I can go to a Reclaim the Night march without feminist groups sending out warnings on their website promising physical violence to any transgendered woman who dares join in. It may be a minority, but they go armed with hammers. I'll take them at their word and know I am unwelcome.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 05:43:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That few is not representative of the majority.  Aggressive and hostile forms of any activism have the effect of appearing larger through being louder but it is enough to keep people out and to intimidate others who would try to challenge them.

But I experience the same (although without the threat of violence) from a small minority of the Deaf Community, who make it clear that I am not one of them, and it is enough to keep me away or at least on the edge.  Ditto with being bi and dealing with lesbians who loathe me for that.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 08:42:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is difficult to know what is representative; with a lot of feminists it still appears to be the default option where they need a reason to be trans-accepting. This dates from the 70s through to the mid 90s where nearly all forms of feminism rejected trans people completely. Whilst a new generation coming through are more accepting, they only seem to unequivocally protest transphobia when it becomes as gratuitously offensive as m Andrea's. Generally we see a grey scale of degrees of conditional acceptance where there severe reservations remain.

It's my impression that some ideas of feminism are inherently transphobic, yet I'm not sure that there is one that is trans-positive. Therefore while questioning remains a widespread ideologically consistent position, acceptance remains an individual act. It will require a philosophical change for feminism as a whole to accept us. And that's why I reject feminism. Trans people didn't declare war on feminism; feminists declared war on us. So it is ridiculous for me to claim a sisterhood I am comprehensively denied.

Feminism has a social dimension as well as an individual declaration. Sarah Palin isn't a feminist, however much she claims it, because what she believes is anti-woman. If I can't join a Reclaim the Night march without a threat of violence, if it means that every contact with feminists has to be cautious and subject to negotiation as if I were still male, then the social acceptance part is lacking : How can I be a feminist ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 10:13:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It would have been better to do the decent thing and say: "Yes, the overwhelming majority of responses were sympathetic and condemned the nasty post and I should have mentioned them at least."

Instead we get more twisted logic from you.

"It is difficult to know what is representative"

It certainly is if we rely on your selection of evidence. You have no problem presenting evidence when it suits your distortions, e.g. the quotation, but it is generally remarkably absent - because it wouldn't sustain your generalisations.

"with a lot of feminists it still appears to be the default option where [that?] they need a reason to be trans-accepting."

It doesn't appear that way from the responses on the site.

"nearly all forms of feminism rejected trans people completely."

"nearly all forms" "completely" ?! Any evidence that it was that dominant?

"It's my impression that some ideas of feminism are inherently transphobic"

It could be that this "some" amounted to very few and accepted by very few. Some of the ideas of feminism of those responding didn't see it as inherent.

"Therefore while questioning remains a widespread ideologically consistent position acceptance remains an individual act."

Ah yes, any negative examples are not just opinions but examples of the ideology of feminism, positive examples can be dismissed as merely personal opinions. Not biased at all.

"It will require a philosophical change for feminism as a whole to accept us."

Just another assertion - which again doesn't fit the responses.

"Trans people didn't declare war on feminism; feminists declared war on us."

Absurd exaggeration - "feminists" (in general) didn't declare "war" on you. You mean, of course, that a small minority have been antagonistic.

"If I can't join a Reclaim the Night march without a threat of violence, if it means that every contact with feminists has to be cautious and subject to negotiation as if I were still male, then the social acceptance part is lacking : How can I be a feminist ?"

Still ridiculous logic - of the minority of feminists who are antagonistic an even smaller minority will threaten violence - and don't amount to an excuse to reject feminism or feminists in general. If someone said they rejected socialism because of the actions of a small, violent sect calling themselves socialists, I'm sure you'd be the first to point out the lack of logic.

Why don't you post your set of allegations about feminism on the feminist site - if you can't provide any evidence perhaps they can. It would be interesting.  


Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 at 05:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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