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EUROPE
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:06:22 PM EST
Climate Control: Germany Reaches Kyoto Emissions Commitments - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

A new study shows that Germany has already reduced greenhouse gas emissions to the level pledged in the Kyoto Protocol. But a greater reliance on coal-fired power plants may soon reverse the trend.

When it comes to global warming and concurrent efforts to reduce the emissions of greenhouse gases, Germany has always tried to present itself as a leader. New data set to be released on Friday shows that the country has earned its bragging rights.

Germany has steadily reduced its greenhouse gas emissions in recent years. According to the most recent numbers collected by the "national emissions inventory," which keeps tabs on Germany's CO2 emissions, the country has already lowered its emissions to the level set out by the Kyoto Protocol agreement. In 1997, Germany pledged to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions by 21 percent by 2012 relative to 1990 levels. New numbers indicate that the country has managed to reduce emissions by 22.4 percent, according to the Süddeutsche Zeitung which saw the report before it was published.

According to the Munich-based daily, the study points to the mild winter of 2006-2007 as being a factor in the recent decline. But it also says that greenhouse gas emissions from German households have been declining for years. The same trend has been observed when it comes to emissions from cars and trucks on the nation's roads.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
German CO2 Emissions Fall Below Kyoto Requirements | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 28.11.2008
Germany has cut its greenhouse gas emissions to below levels required under the Kyoto Protocol on climate change, the government in Berlin announced on Friday.

Europe's biggest economy's CO2 emissions, which are blamed for causing global warming, last year came in at 22.4 percent below Kyoto's base years of 1990 and 1995, the environment ministry said in a statement.

  

At 957 million tons, total CO2 emissions last year were 2.3 percent lower than in 2006, the ministry said.

 

The release of the figures comes ahead of Monday's crucial United Nations-sponsored talks on climate change in the Polish city of Poznan. Climate change is also on the agenda for next month's European Union (EU) leaders' summit in Brussels.

  

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that basically only 3 countries have reached their Kyoto targets: France, UK, and Germany (and possibly Sweden). All others are mostly very far off. Europe as a whole is not too far, so it's not altogether ridiculous (even if one can easily argue that the targets were not ambitious enough).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 04:06:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, that really surprises me, at least for Germany, considering that our policies were mostly hand-waving, if I recall correctly. But the rising prices for heating and travelling did their work already.
by Humbug (mailklammeraffeschultedivisstrackepunktde) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 12:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Georgia 'may have staged' Kaczynski shooting - EUobserver

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Georgia may have staged the shooting of a convoy carrying the Polish and Georgian presidents, say leaked Polish security service reports.

South Ossetian paramilitaries fired shots near a motorcade carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski and Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili to the border of the disputed Akhalgori district last weekend.

The incident in Akhalgori originally discredited Russia

The incident highlighted the continuing presence of Russian-backed forces deep inside Georgia in violation of earlier peace treaties, but its impact has been dulled by suspicions that Tbilisi set up the events.

"At the current time and on the basis of the information obtained, the most likely scenario is that the situation may have been created by the Georgian side," a leaked Situation Report by the Polish Internal Security Agency, the ABW, published in the Dziennik daily on Thursday (27 November), says.

The report points out that the Akhalgori visit was not consulted with Polish security services, that Mr Saakashvili stopped the convoy and asked Mr Kaczysnki to step outside the car near the checkpoint and that the Georgian president and his men showed no signs of distress when the shots rang out.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:10:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | Saakashvili defends S Ossetia war

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has denied seeking a green light from Washington for his country's assault on its breakaway region of South Ossetia.

Giving evidence to a parliamentary inquiry into the conflict, Mr Saakashvili also denied planning the attack months in advance.

He insisted Russia made the first move, pouring tanks and men over the border.

There was an outcry this week when Georgia's former ambassador to Moscow said Georgia started the war.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Even if it was not the case everyone in the world believed it was.Saakashvili lost credibility.Credibility is one of the most important things nowadays...and it's good.
USA is losing credibility big time...it cost and will cost a lot...
by vbo on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 09:51:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm still impressed how fast the pushback is coming on this one - a sign indeed that the Georgians' credibility is shot.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 04:12:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is so rich with sadness, the final spurt and spasm of BushEra NeoCon Outsourcing.

The US and Israel train and load these guys up with weapons in June, put Bush with Putin at the Olympics for plausible deniability, and proceed to have everything go wrong.

I bet that when the secret papers are 'discovered', the title will be Project al Nadir.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 06:54:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EU Slams Drug Makers for Delaying or Blocking Cheaper Generics | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 28.11.2008
A new EU report accuses drug makers of keeping prices for medication high by thwarting less expensive generic products from coming to market. In the US, far more generic drugs are sold than in Europe.

Drug companies are blocking or delaying the entry of cheaper generic medicines from coming to the market, according to an EU report released on Friday, Nov. 28.

"The Commission will not hesitate to open anti-trust cases against companies where there are indications that the anti-trust rules may have been breached," said Neelie Kroes, the 27-nation bloc's competition commissioner.

The report examined a sampling of medication from 17 European Union member states in which the patents have expired and estimated that the delays involved in getting generic versions of those brand names on the market had cost health care providers around three billion euros ($3.9 billion) between 2000 and 2007.

The results of the sample probe prompted Kroes to comment that competition in the pharmaceutical industry was not functioning as well as it should.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Business | Drug firms 'block cheap medicine'

Drug companies are blocking or delaying the entry of cheaper generic medicines into the EU, pushing up medicine bills, the European Commission has said.

Their actions cost EU healthcare providers 3bn euros ($3.9bn; £2.5bn) in savings between 2000 and 2007, it said.

It added that drug firms used legal action and multiple patents to stop rivals getting to market.

Drug firms said the "perfectly lawful" measures were justified to protect investment in research and development.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:14:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
had cost health care providers around three billion euros ($3.9 billion) between 2000 and 2007.
Such a nice round figure, 3 billion. And it no doubt means 3 billion additional, compared to what the drugs should have cost.

Drug firms said the "perfectly lawful" measures were justified to protect investment in research and development.
Yes, because BigPharma is such a slave to the law in so many other regards. Like leaving out test results that might look confusing to overworked regulators, completely removing tests with deaths and hallucinations which might trigger Terrorism Anxiety Syndrome in the public.

BigPharma is only here for our benefit.

We have always been at war with EastHolistia.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 07:53:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Russian missile plan gives a new European trade hub an old identity crisis - International Herald Tribune

KALININGRAD, Russia: This is what passes for humor in Kaliningrad these days: Iskander missile tourism. Dipping deep into his reservoir of black humor, Vladimir N. Abramov tries out this sales pitch for his region, a cold war garrison turned European trade hub that may, once again, become a staging ground for missiles pointed west.

"Attracting tourists to see an Iskander is a creative idea," said Abramov, a political scientist. "Especially for the Poles. When it is flying toward them, they may not be able to see it. Come to Kaliningrad! Pose next to the missile which is going to kill you."

Somewhere behind the joke is a real question about the future of Kaliningrad. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Moscow has devised a series of plans for this old military outpost, wedged on the Baltic Sea between Lithuania and Poland.

Former President Boris Yeltsin saw it as the Russian Hong Kong, a free trade zone to entice foreign investors. Yeltsin's successor, Vladimir Putin, drew it closer to Moscow, planning a nuclear power plant that would export energy to Europe. As oil and gas wealth poured into Russia, more ideas emerged: Las Vegas-style gambling, for instance, and a constellation of luxury resorts.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:11:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ACP countries fear Europe may abandon aid pledges in wake of crisis - EUobserver

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - A meeting of European Union parliamentarians and their counterparts in African, Caribbean and Pacific (ACP) countries has called on European and other developed countries not to let the global crisis hit development aid budgets.

As the ongoing financial turbulence causes European governments to turn attention inward, development aid budgets could be first in the firing line, they fear, and if developed countries such as Iceland or Hungary are hit hard, the global south will be hit that much harder.

The 16th ACP-EU joint parliamentary assembly's meeting ended on Friday in Papua New Guinea.

"The world financial crisis should not be used to justify cuts in development aid," demands a declaration by the 16th ACP-EU joint parliamentary assembly, which ended on Friday (28 November), after week-long deliberations in Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea.

Twice a year, the assembly brings together 78 members of the European Parliament and 78 parliamentarians from ACP states - the grouping of developing countries that for the most part were once colonies of EU member state empires.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:15:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EUobserver
EU should tackle English football dominance, France says

France's sports minister, Bernard Laporte, warned on Thursday (27 November) that English football pre-eminence was getting out of hand and that Brussels needs to referee the situation.

"We see European competitions between participants of two or three nations," he told a two-day summit of EU sports ministers. "Where is the uncertainty in such a sporting contest?"

The dominance of English clubs is "out of hand" says France

English clubs have won the UEFA Champions League the last four years, and were runners up for the last three as well. Critics in France and in UEFA complain that lax financial rules in the UK allow teams to borrow heavily to attract more top players and to regularly increase salaries to keep them, while stricter regulation in other European jurisdictions prevents similar action.

The French EU presidency has complained this is unfair and that the EU - which has no mandate to legislate around sport - should step in and regulate.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's some top-quality diplomacy by the French sports minister. English worries about the French proposal will be eased now that it is out in the open that the UK is indeed the target. Italy should be happy about it as well. And this is a crucial topic at this time in history, well worth whatever damage the French EU Presidency will run up by looking like it wants to politicise everything.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:31:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyone who expects diplomacy from Bernard Laporte is going to be disappointed. (Anyone who expects him to be a good rugby coach too.)

But the question of regulation of football clubs is still there.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 03:40:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not the most important thing to do right now. I'm not even sure that it should be addressed at all by the EU. The UEFA should be able to sort it out themselves.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 04:56:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
where French solutions should be tried rather than English one, don't you think?

I think that even the English may be receptive to this line of argument, right now: given that we need government, let's let the countries that take government seriously in charge...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 04:15:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've certainly become more comfortable with the French line that this or that field should ultimately be under political control rather than merely arranged by the market or by quangos. But I'm not sure that it should extend to everything.

The UK turned out not to be so receptive to this, in fact their minister used it to score some points on his side, as the (rather typical) Times writeup shows.

Premier League claims victory, but fight goes on | Premier League - Times Online

It was not quite Agincourt, but 500 miles away across France in Biarritz, Great Britain and her allies repulsed a French assault on the independence of the national game -- for now.

The southwestern coastal town hosted an informal summit of EU sports ministers at which France, in the shape of Bernard Laporte, the Sports Minister, wanted to establish the principle of pan-European financial licensing for sports.

A draft of the conclusions drawn up by the French, who hold the EU's rotating presidency, included support from the 27 ministers for "European control of club management". But after two days of wrangling, this phrase and an entire section referring to a possible European "self-regulatory system" were expunged from the final summit declaration.

For the Premier League, which feared that the meeting could mark the beginning of a move towards a European super-regulator, the outcome will come as a relief and it was heralded as a triumph by Gerry Sutcliffe, the Sports Minister, who objected to Laporte's open hostility towards the success of English football clubs.


[Murdoch Alert]
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 05:29:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Open Rights Group : Blog Archive » From bad to worse: MEPs to rush through disembowelled term extension directive. (posted nov. 26th)
The flawed proposal to extend the term of copyright protection afforded to sound recordings, robbing consumers in the name of performers but for the benefit of the world's four major record labels, is being fast-tracked through the democratic process. Earlier this month MEPs from the relevant European Parliament committees presented their draft reports at a meeting of the legal affairs committee (JURI), the Committee which will make recommendations to the European Parliament on how to vote on the Directive early next year. They proposed a host of worrying new amendments which threaten to:
  • Weaken further already inadequate measures intended to allow orphan works, and commercially worthless but culturally significant recordings to pass into the public domain (Culture (CULT), Internal Market (IMCO) and the Industry, Technology and Research (ITRE) committees draft reports).
  • Allow record labels to deduct "costs" from a fund intended to benefit session musicians, further shrinking the pot of money made available to performers in favour of labels (IMCO committee draft report).
  • Dramatically widen the scope of the Directive to include audio-visual recording, even though no relevant impact assessment has been conducted into what effect this might have on consumers and follow-on innovators. (JURI and ITRE committee draft reports).

via sargasso
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another view:

BBC NEWS | UK | Musicians urge copyright change

A video message on behalf of 38,000 UK musicians has been sent to Gordon Brown urging him to back an extension of their copyright protection.

The musicians, many of whom have worked with major artists, say they risk losing their income under current laws.

Performers' copyright runs out after 50 years but for composers and authors it extends for 70 years after their death.[...]

Phil Pickett, a musician who played with '80s band Culture Club, said the amount of money a copyright change would provide musicians was small but important.

"Ninety per cent of musicians earn less than £15,000 a year. These royalties are very small but they add up over the years," he said.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 11:00:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Copyright extension has been pursued in the US for the benefit of a few big media corporations, who want to market just a few very popular works forever.

They are definitely not interested in selling copies of the vast majority of items they hold copyright to, because this would result in less sales of their more recent offerings. So most items will remain unavailable for as long as the copyright persists; nobody will earn anything from these works.

However the public good is reduced the longer the copyright is conferred. The inability to re-issue old stuff, that is the province of small firms will result in an impaired cultural memory and curtailed cross-fecundation.

Incidentally, it becomes more difficult to obtain licenses the earlier the item has been produced (for obvious reasons), resulting in ‘orphan’ works that cannot be reissued until the copyright has expired.

by Humbug (mailklammeraffeschultedivisstrackepunktde) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 12:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed. I can see few reasons for intellectual copyright to last more than 3 years, even though I benefit greatly from the current copyright agreements.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 12:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Humbug:
They are definitely not interested in selling copies of the vast majority of items they hold copyright to, because this would result in less sales of their more recent offerings.

You're basing this on what evidence? Factually there's still a very significant market for recordings from the 50s, 60s, and 70s - never mind after that.

It's nonsense to suggest that this will result in lower sales for recent offerings, because there's a huge nostalgia market.

With downloads, the cost of delivery approaches zero. Labels realise that all recordings are potentially valuable. Within five to ten years it's going to be trivial to make any recording ever made, out of print or not, available for download, together with out-takes and alternative mixes.

Humbug:

However the public good is reduced the longer the copyright is conferred. The inability to re-issue old stuff, that is the province of small firms will result in an impaired cultural memory and curtailed cross-fecundation.

This is also nonsense. I can think of maybe ten or twenty albums, from my total collection of thousands, which I know are out of print on CD. What's happened in reality is that the music has moved to labels like Cuneiform and Voiceprint, who deal almost exclusively with reissues.

If the music were unavailable, musicians wouldn't be sending petitions to government asking to be included in royalty payments.

Do you think you know more about their economic position than they do?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 07:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I have no knowledge of the music industry I will concede you all your factual observations in this regard, albeit not fully convinced.

Nevertheless, I consider your argument fundamentally flawed.

To begin I would like to draw your attention to the fact, often overlooked, that the granting of monopolies and other privileges is more typical of the early modern state which lacked many of the more efficient and sophisticated instruments that we have today.

No sane person would – I dare to say – consider abolishing state financed pharmaceutical research in favour of issuing monopolies to haphazard drug inventions, that would yield rewards more in proportion to popular demand instead of medical need.

If I understand you correctly you plead for the copyright term extension because this would mean somehow greater income for performing musicians later in life. This is in fact the case, but consider the following: the value at the time of the performance of these income is very small, because it will occur far in the future, and it is no so secure. I sum they would get some more tickets for a lottery to be drawn in a far off future. – Not the most brilliant or efficient way of achieving the worthy goal of bettering the lot of ageing musicians, I presume.
If what you want is better social security, it is social security that you should demand. – Amusingly your argument is neo-contortionist, say like for commercial TV: you buy a box Persil and then better close your eyes.

On the other hand, your proposal comes with costs that you do not account for correctly, I'm afraid.

A monopoly will reduce output, I think most economists will concur here. in the case of scholarly journals, where the legislator has abolished or aborted open access, extortionist pricing resulted, limiting effective access perhaps even to lower levels than before those recent technological developments which would make it really cheap.

In order to have a flourishing download market, you would have to support Digital Rights Management, which is, however, an evil in its own right.

Consider a parallel development: Technology would permit to build an open archive of all radio emissions, only a tiny proportion of which have any commercial value, but which would constitute a great source of material for many purposes, nostalgic, or intellectual. This is dead because it would compete with archives of the newspapers etc., which therefore can offer their (less important) archives at higher price.

Best regards

[part of my manuscript is illegible – please, excuse any lacunae]

by Humbug (mailklammeraffeschultedivisstrackepunktde) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 06:58:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Individual copy rights have nothing to do with monopolies.

You're assuming - like most of the people who make bold assertions about copyright without knowing the first thing about how the music industry works - that all copyrights are held by giant major labels, and that's all there is to know.

They're not. The reality is that rights assignments are split between individuals, holding companies, other representatives, and major labels - among others. For a typical working musician, the micro-payments add up.

What's your alternative suggestion - that we should pay working musicians even less than they earn already and make them survive on a minimum state pension, because no one should give a crap about their time, effort and talent?

Is that supposed to be a progressive argument?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 07:58:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Eurozone inflation falls sharply | Business | guardian.co.uk

Inflation in the eurozone tumbled to its lowest level in over a year last month, giving the ECB more scope to cut interest rates aggressively next week.

The Eurostat European Union statistics office said today that consumer price inflation dropped 1.1 percentage points last month to stand at 2.1%. This is the lowest level since September 2007 and suggests that inflation is bound to fall back below the European Central Bank's target rate of 2% in December.

It added that unemployment rose to 7.7% last month, from an upwardly revised 7.6% in September. The biggest increase in unemployment was in Spain, where the jobless rate rose to 12.8%, from 12.1% in September.

Economists now expect the European Central Bank to slash rates by at least half a percentage point next week, which would leave rates standing at 2.75%. The ECB has so far cut rates twice by 50 basis points in October and November.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:28:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Britain tries to block France from 'u-turn' on farm subsidies deal - Telegraph
Senior French officials have admitted that they plan to block attempts to cut European Union farm subsidies worth more than £7 billion a year to France's farmers.

France, which currently holds the EU's rotating presidency, had tabled "conclusions" to a meeting of farm ministers urging that the Common Agriculture Policy should be continued unchanged beyond 2013, the date when a new five year Brussels budget period begins.

But Britain, through Huw Irranca-Davies, Minister for Rural Affairs, has joined with Sweden and Latvia to block France's attempts which would threaten to break promises made three years ago when Britain gave up £7 billion in its annual rebate from Brussels in trade off for an understanding there would be a future cut in farm subsidies.

"There were three or four areas within the text that, despite assurances that it did not predetermine any budget outcome, in our eyes did presuppose that there was a different direction of travel," Mr Irranca-Davies said.

The Daily Telegraph has learned that France is using its EU presidency to try and find ways of protecting the CAP from reform during negotiations in 2009.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:30:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
On a scale of 1 to 10, how much cooperation is there between European countries, and will a MAJOR crisis bring you together in solidarity or blow you apart, every country for yourself, wolves take the hind-most?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not a particularly smart question in reaction to an excerpt from a euroskeptic newspaper on the issue of farm subsidies. What kind of easy agreement would American states reach on the same question, if the decision to be federal had not been taken more than two centuries ago?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 03:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hell, I thought that that was one of my better questions and it definitely applies to the US, especially if the the REAL SH*T hits the fan over the next year.  About 2+ years ago I had my own radio program on  Sacramento CA cable access called "Republic of California", a call-in show preparing CA to become an independent state should Bush/Cheney et al decide to let ANOTHER 9/11 occur somewhere and totally shut down the US permanently.
Still have the CD's I burned if you want me to send them to you.

Yeah, I take this sh*t SERIOUSLY!

Might be a stupid question but that's me.

   

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 11:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
afew: That's not a particularly smart question in reaction to an excerpt from a euroskeptic newspaper on the issue of farm subsidies.

Hmmm.  While I understand the sentiment behind what you're saying here, that is only because I have been around EuroTrib long enough to know how emotional and bitter disagreements about farm subsidies and the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) are around here.

But as someone who did not grow up in Europe and had very little interest in the issue of farm subsidies anyway, it has been a long and not very fun learning curve to understanding why people get so upset about it.  And to be honest, I still don't quite get the issue, much less agree fully with the French/EU side.

True, Twank's comment may have been unnecessarily dramatic in magnifying the significance of this particular round of this particular intra-European debate in this particular article.  And true, a little reflection and/or a little more informedness (?) might have made him remember or realize that farm subsidies are also an issue the U.S. has the luxury to deal with in a very different manner.

But with all due respect, I'm not quite sure that calling it "not a particularly smart question" was the fairest or most constructive characterization.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 01:06:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
marco: the French/EU side

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 02:08:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you should be able to note that what the telegraph is saying is, quite simply, lies.

The deal back then was that farm spending was protected until 2013, not that it would be reduced after that date (that was always the UK spin, but it had no reality except in the "reality-making sense", which doesn't realy work on that topic when the opposition is organised enough.

As to the "rebate," go read what it was about - the UK was trying to keep a rebate formula that would have made Poland and other Central European countries pay it money rather than the other way around.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 04:19:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyone who wants to insult the crap out of me, feel free.  I don't work for you, I don't live next door to you, I'll probably never meet ANY of you, so just fire away.  ET is an information source for me, nothing else, and if I have to dodge a rotten egg or two in my pursuit of information, that's an extremely small price to pay.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 at 08:57:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Kosovo Frees Three German Intelligence Agents | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 28.11.2008
Kosovo authorities released three German intelligence agents Friday, 10 days after they were arrested and accused of throwing a bomb at a European Union office, a UN official and the men's lawyer said.

Germany, the second biggest donor to the new ethnic Albanian republic after the United States, was angered by the arrest. It reportedly sent a government plane to immediately pick up the

trio, who work for the clandestine BND foreign intelligence service.

 

Robert Dean, head of the justice department of the United Nations administration in Kosovo, confirmed that the three had been released.

 

The previous day a panel of Kosovo judges had declined to release the three, and asked an international judge to join in a review of the case. The closed-door hearing lasted nearly 10 hours Friday.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 02:40:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hahaha...talking about independence...funny isn't it? The whole story is totally murky and God only knows what has happened there but it was just clearly shown to Kosovo judges what their role and power is. Zero. I don't understand why they arrested trio at the first place. Did they really think they are independent? How stupid!
Even Milosevic had to relies Australian spies at the time. He also had some dreams about sovereignty at the time...
by vbo on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 10:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sixth homeless person dies of cold in Paris area - Summary : Europe World
Paris - A homeless man was found frozen to death in Paris early Friday, the sixth homeless individual to have died of the cold in the Paris area in the past month, France Info radio reported. Reacting to the report, President Nicolas Sarkozy called for immediate action.

"We must act so that no one else dies of the cold in 2008. It's a scandal," Sarkozy said.

Sarkozy said Friday that one could not force anyone to go to a shelter "if he does not want to."

The French president suggested that the homeless person should be convinced at least to look at the bed and food he would be provided in the shelter. "If he doesn't like it, then he can go," Sarkozy said.

A few days ago, the housing rights' association Droit Au Logement was condemned to about €20 000 because of the tents it had installed for the homeless - the police had confiscated them, and the association was sued for "leaving objects in the street"... A strange way to help the homeless live through the winter.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 05:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sarkozy's the kind of guy who'll kick you in the behind then say "People are getting kicked in the behind, what a scandal!"

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 05:18:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Strikes me more like the kind who would stab you in the back then complain about knife crime while holding the murder weapon behind his back and counting the contents of your wallet.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 28th, 2008 at 05:52:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh yes: it's deserved.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 04:20:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not quite - unless you use a sloppy argument to reach a mistaken conclusion (but if that helps justify your hatred, by all means, serve yourself...)

You're confusing the two issues. Those guys who died from cold, did not die because they wouldn't have found tents on the streets.

They died because they did not go to shelters, or even worse, they slept in the forests.
When Sarkozy suggested all homeless should be brought to shelters by force, everybody else cried out that "the homeless are not understood!".

What's there to be understood, either you stay out and you die of cold, or you come to where warmth is. No one can provide you with a cosy home, a wife, two kids and a fireplace by snapping their fingers.

So then Sarkozy, who still intends to protect the homeless and his political back, said,
we'll bring them to shelters, serve them a good meal, show them the rooms. If they still want it, they're free to go away: shelters are not prisons.

If this can be called "stabbing in the back", I'll have the knife at dinner tonight.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 07:07:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i think it ties in with the 'charity' aspect of it. homeless people don't want to given a temporary fix-with-conditions out of someone else's 'charity', they want dignity.

the sarko bashing has little to do with his apparent generosity in inviting the homeless for a free meal and a place to kip, and more to do with the social conditions that permit such poverty, and the rightist tendencies of sarko, whose plans for europe tend towards 'neolib' anglo-diseased reforms, thus making his antics for his tame press ridiculous and hypocritical.

eminently bashworthy, in between socking it to ideologues!

perhaps you disagree... have fun!

"The question facing world leaders today is not what to do. It is whether to do it." James Galbraith

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 08:54:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The context here was the emergency situation brought by the sudden cold. No one denies that this is but a quick fix.

Sarkozy has often spoken for more regulation of international finance, bankers pay, against investment  funds' short-term activism, for more democracy and more politics in EU's decisions, so that people stop seeing it as a technocratic bureaucracy. Sarko supports environmental policies, he supports regulation of EU imports with social, health, and quality standards. Sarko was often opposed to tax or social dumping from eastern european countries.
I warmly encourage you to look through all this and find the neolib' policies. I don't even think you can label them as rightist.
And then when you finally managed to find something more factual, we can discuss the term bashworthy, if you will see fit.

By the way dignity is not given by someone, or given by someone else. Either you have it, or you don't. Neither the state, nor the society threw people out of their houses. Each of those homeless are there as a result of a personal situation which cannot be just thrown in the face of the society and culpabilize it wiht that.
The homeless must be helped, but more than quick fixes, they need help to reintegrate the society (if they want to), find a sense to life (if they miss one), find a job.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 09:10:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oops. The word "job" just slipped out, oh the horror.
I exposed myself as hard-right.

Oh well. I guess just the notion of "giving" matters.
If we don't just "give", no questions asked, no condition at all, no effort implied, now or in the future, the vulnerable will feel they're treated like rags. Anything less than unconditional giving, is just heartless and inhumane.
You're in an emergency situation, but you don't accept mere "charity". People care about your vulnerable situation, what an insult. A taxi for Monsieur?

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 09:19:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i think you're missing the point.

have you ever been is dire straits and dependent on others for the very basics of life?

i hope it never happens to you, though it might change your attitude.

some people would rather freeze to death than be made to feel 'less-than'. your sneering at that is sad and not helpful on any level.

honour is a strange concept, suffice it to say that for some it's more important than life, whether you sneer at those who feel that way for not being pragmatic or not.

personally i would take the handout, but i understand and do not feel it's ok to judge those who would rather check out. some things are more important than another band-aid over a broken life.

bon voyage, monsieur

a toi la parole

"The question facing world leaders today is not what to do. It is whether to do it." James Galbraith

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 10:21:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Charity is not a dirty word. It doesn't mean looking down at those smelling beggars and throwing them a piece of bread. Charity and pity are good feelings that come from sympathy and empathy. It makes one jump to the help of some one else. Handout when you've got nothing left, from various reasons, is no shame. There is something called gratitude towards someone that helped you, that I see as slightly more sensible than a honour or other big and empty words.

And when you don't take the handout or choose to remain outside when you've been treated well and with the normal respect, I don't see anything bashworthy towards anyone in charge (be that from the shelter, the ministry or the president). I really think that just like with discriminations, all this should be nuanced well beyond what is obvious. Why people become homeless, how does that change them, what are their own attitudes, how justified, how reproachable (no one is beyond fault, poor or rich), how correct-able, is a dense and deep topic.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 at 04:34:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ValentinD:
Charity and pity are good feelings that come from sympathy and empathy. It makes one jump to the help of some one else.

true, but that's the micro, we're trying to get macro when talking about politics.

charity is that and more.

does the word 'vibration' resonate with you?

have you never been given something by someone in such a way that you felt poorer afterwards?

as you often do, you weave truths in with opinion is such a way that comes off as sophistic, to me.

ValentinD:

honour or other big and empty words.

if that is all honour is to you, then i've run out of communication tools, oh well...

no need for reply! we seem to be talking past one another. we both tried, and that's respectable.

"The question facing world leaders today is not what to do. It is whether to do it." James Galbraith

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 at 08:38:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
coming from different ideologies, maybe :)

(honour was meant in that precise context, compared to gratitude and assumming respect in the said handout)

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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