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Hi Jake,

I'm not going to enter a detailed discussion about unions. My point was never "against unions", nor to say that all unions would be leftwing or extremist. I gave an example of two such unions in France, in order to show how we're not even allowed to call them that without getting shut down by leftwing ideologists.
The same holds true about globalisation or "the markets know best". Even before opening our mouth, missiles fly against the miscreant.

I could also comment long and large on the assault on benefits. At least in France, one can hardly say that. If you choose to see it as a tendency, or even an organized attack, it's your right, I tend to me more moderate and more nuanced about this (too).

Finally, neocon/neolib arguments might have been clearly fake for you, but not for everyone out there, which is why Bush got elected (besides fear mongering) and Greenspan was praised by both right and left administrations.

(btw I am glad you at least agree Sarkozy makes the correct noises; we're going to have to wait a bit and  see what will come out of it all)

V

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 at 08:49:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not going to enter a detailed discussion about unions.

You never do...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 at 09:44:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because I won't allow myself dragged into that, when the point I'm trying to make is not that. Do read my reply to Jake: I have nothing against unions, except when they promote class warfare. I have nothing against economists, except when they pretend to make a society moulded on their own desires.

Btw the point of this post was technocratic bureaucracy, it is sad that instead of noting that (maybe even commenting), all you and Jake care about is my pretended political bias.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 at 09:53:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Unions promote class warfare? How, where and when pray tell? Last time I checked, it was the top 10 % of the wealth distribution that was waging class war on everybody else. Or perhaps you think unions are at fault for actually fighting the war that the fatcats started instead of rolling over and playing dead like the so-called social democratic parties in parliament?

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 at 11:47:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I never said unions are at fault, I don't think they should fight any way.

And then, I don't remmeber having ever even mentioned unions in the diary post above (which I recommend to you, in case you didn't read it yet).

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 at 04:22:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you seriously saying that unions should refuse to defend themselves when subjected to a concerted attack by neoliberal fanatics? Are you seriously saying that unions should not oppose the dismantling of civilised society by people who want to throw us back to the 19th century?

Something tells me that you don't have such a lenient attitude towards fanatics who wish to impose Shari'a...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 at 07:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I could also comment long and large on the assault on benefits. At least in France, one can hardly say that.

So stealing train drivers' pensions (pensions that were contractually deferred salaries - i.e. money that they had an indisputable right to) isn't an assault on benefits? I wonder what does qualify.

Finally, neocon/neolib arguments might have been clearly fake for you, but not for everyone out there, which is why Bush got elected (besides fear mongering) and Greenspan was praised by both right and left administrations.

Bush was not elected, and Greenspan was never praised by left-wing administrations. Bush stole at least one of "his" elections (and American democracy is nothing to write home about in the first place), and Greenspan was praised by right-wing administrations and far-right extremists. Because that's all that were there to praise him in the American scene.

Unless of course you subscribe to a rather peculiar kind of political relativism, whereby Lenin could rightly be called a centrist, because he was right in the centre of the Soviet political spectrum (between Trotsky to the left and Stalin to the right).

None of which changes the fact that the neocons/neolibs were wrong on the facts to an extent that you haven't even tried to argue that the left is.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 at 11:36:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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