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Nuancing won't help in this case. That vision was based on a materialist and dialectical take on the evolution of mankind. That is reductionist to begin with, and leads straight to the "proletarian revolution", the destruction of "oppressor classes" and other such pearls of wisdom - the democracy embodied by the unique party, the society dictating what the individual must think, say and do, the moral and physical termination of any dissenter, and so on - what we call a dictatorship.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 08:32:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As usual you don't cite a bit of evidence, it's just assertion of the most caricaturing kind - blatant ideology. Provided with evidence you simply ignore it. I don't provide it to convince you - a closed mind if ever I saw one, but for others who might possibly find your blathering in any way persuasive.


Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 09:02:10 AM EST
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I don't need to cite anything, look at how it happened in practice. But I forgot, you claim that was not "genuine" practice. Oh well. Nothing was. The thing remains an utopia, and people will continue to be cheated by ideologists. Hence the instinctive disgust for a pragmatic, rational approach, not unlike creationists' when you bring them to carbon-dated samples.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 10:08:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"I don't need to cite anything, look at how it happened in practice".

The typical response of the ideologist - ignore the evidence, ignore the arguments - a dictatorship is not a version of communism - and pretend that "practice" is your opinion about what happened.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 11:18:31 AM EST
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Even philosophically I don't need to cite anything. Marxism is BASED on that view that I mentioned. Your job to look up The Capital and all the other books, or any encyclopedy you like if you're that unknowledgeable in things marxist.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 10:10:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Even philosophically I don't need to cite anything. Marxism is BASED on that view that I mentioned."

No, of course you don't have to cite anything - you just think to know and we are supposed to accept your opinion which is, like the truly ideological, impervious to the evidence and doesn't bother to offer any.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 11:23:30 AM EST
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No, it's just that I don't really see what you want me to provide links or quotations for.

You want me to prove that dialectical materialism, or historical materialism was materialist and, well, dialectical ? :)  

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 01:21:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You claimed:


Only at the end of it all, after the Armaghedon, came the selfless sharing community.

I provided evidence showing this was not true, Marx allowed for the possibility of peaceful change. You don't dispute the evidence - you simply decide to ignore it and just proceed with the usual ideological nonsense. It's about time you tried to deal with arguments in a serious way.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 09:07:50 AM EST
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I'll take a slippery slope, with an unsupported conjecture on the side, please.

You know, you've almost earned all of these in a single thread... Those aren't precisely merit badges, ya'know. No need to pursue them so relentlessly.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 02:17:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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