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From the left, a call to end the current Dutch notion of tolerance - International Herald Tribune

Two weeks ago, the country's biggest left-wing political grouping, the Labor Party, which has responsibility for integration as a member of the coalition government led by the Christian Democrats, issued a position paper calling for the end of the failed model of Dutch "tolerance."

It came at the same time Nicolas Sarkozy was making a case in France for greater opportunities for minorities that also contained an admission that the French notion of equality "doesn't work anymore."

But there was a difference. If judged on the standard scale of caution in dealing with cultural clashes and Muslims' obligations to their new homes in Europe, the language of the Dutch position paper and Lilianne Ploumen, Labor's chairperson, was  exceptional.

The paper said: "The mistake we can never repeat is stifling criticism of cultures and religions for reasons of tolerance."

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Dec 29th, 2008 at 08:29:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From the left, a call to end the current Dutch notion of tolerance - International Herald Tribune

The why of this happening now when a recession could accelerate new social tensions, particularly among nonskilled workers, has a couple of explanations.

A petty, political one: It involves a Labor Party on an uptick, with its the party chief, Wouter Bos, who serves as finance minister, showing optimism that the Dutch can avoid a deep recession. The cynical take has him casting the party's new integration policy as a fresh bid to consolidate momentum ahead of elections for the European Parliament in June.

A kinder, gentler explanation (that comes, remarkably, from Frits Bolkestein, the former Liberal Party leader, European commissioner, and no friend of the socialists, who began writing in 1991 about the enormous challenge posed to Europe by Muslim immigration):

"The multi-cultis just aren't making the running anymore. It's a brave step towards a new normalcy in this country. "

Hm... nanne... what is your reaction to the piece?

I find it all rather sad. It's a rational political logic for the left - who ever really lost votes by picking on immigrants?

At the same time, the immigrant population doesn't seem that large and has there really been that much stifling of "criticism of cultures and religions"?

Obviously I don't know because it's now years since I lived there...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Dec 30th, 2008 at 05:00:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Netherlands doesn't know how to do individualism. Ploumen is talking about the need to end parallel societies but still addresses these people as if they were a community. As I wrote down in my diary on the Dutch government programme, this government is following a communautarian approach, which is consistent with the traditional approach to integration.

So I think that this position paper, from Vinocur's reporting at least, is muddled. If you think about communities it is obvious that you will have some level of separation in a society. You also have Jewish, Chinese, Indian and Indonesian communities in the Netherlands and these are not seen as problematic. So in dealing with the Turkish and Moroccan community you will have to address the aspect of where the problems lie, and in that sense trying to eradicate parallel societies and force full assimilation will not work.

There were some taboos in talking about immigrants in the ninetees, in the sense that the political top and much of the press stayed away from it, following a model of multiculturalism. But that was exploded long ago.

This change in the party's strategy has been decided at the top, by Wouter Bos. The Minister of Integration and Housing, Ella Vogelaar, fell as a result.

The Netherlands has in practice been trying confrontation for the past eight years, the only new thing being that the labour party is now also on board. I don't think it's brought much improvement over the soft approach of the ninetees.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Dec 30th, 2008 at 05:53:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the movement toward acknowledging differences is helpful.  Immigration requires the culture to adjust and to "give" some of itself to the new members of the society.  If everyone plugs their ears and pretends it is not happening the pressure will build up and eventually escape through other means.  

If they allow themselves to embrace immigrants two things will happen:

  1. The scale of their impact will be reduced - as it is the problems and differences are vastly magnified by hysteria

  2. The initial culture will actually improve - second generation immigrants typically abandon the least civil of their old traditions and embrace the modern, exciting aspects of their new culture.  That is, if they are allowed to participate in it.
by paving on Tue Dec 30th, 2008 at 01:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's this BS?

Muslims' obligations to their new homes in Europe

Why only Muslims, why only obligations (there are, say, opportunities too), and why only on the part of immigrants (as if integration would depend on the immigrants only)? And why take Islamophobe Bolkestein at face value when he talks about an "enormous challenge"?...

Ah, you forgot to mention the author: who else, John Vinocur...

Still, like Metatone, I wonder what you think about the actual Ploumen position paper, and how it played in the Dutch-language media.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 30th, 2008 at 05:23:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Dutch language media have not really been critical of the Ploumen piece, in general. For my money, Bas Heijne hits it in his NRC piece.

Bas Heijne » Een gevoel van verliesBas Heijne » A Feeling of loss
Wanneer je de links-rechts tegenstelling vervangt door de tegenstelling progressief en anti-progressief, wordt veel duidelijk - de eindeloze verwarring binnen de PvdA bijvoorbeeld. Binnen die partij is men er nog altijd niet overheen dat men vanuit een progressieve geestesgesteldheid nieuwkomers heeft verwelkomd die er anti-progressieve ideeën opnahouden. When you replace the left-right dichotomy by the dichotomy of progressive and anti-progressive, a lot becomes clear - the endless confusion within the PvdA, for instance. Within that party they still have not gotten over the fact that from a progressive spirit we have welcomed newcomers who have anti-progressive ideas.
Van die nieuwkomers werd blindelings verwacht dat die zich zouden voegen naar het progressieve wereldbeeld dat hun komst mogelijk had gemaakt. Maar veel Nederlandse moslims voegden zich niet naar de progressieve idealen van weleer, maar naar de anti-progressieve tijdgeest van nu. Vandaar dat ze bij het CDA nauwelijks problemen met de islam hebben.It was blindly expected from the newcomers that they would fold to the progresssive worldview that had enabled their coming. But many Dutch muslims did not fold to the progressive ideals of yore, but to the anti-progressive Zeitgeist of now. That explains that the CDA barely has problems with islam.
Dat de verwarring binnen die PvdA ook nu nog niet is opgeklaard, blijkt wel uit de notitie over het integratiedebat die partijvoorzitter Ploumen afgelopen week het licht deed zien. In een interview in de Volkskrant trok ze manmoedig van leer tegen de slachtoffercultuur onder allochtonen; tegelijk herhaalde ze de Schefferiaanse mantra maar weer eens dat autochtonen leden onder een gevoel van verlies dat zij de afgelopen decennia jammerlijk waren miskend. Dat dat gevoel van verlies inmiddels bepaald niet meer onderdrukt wordt en zelf tot een onverkwikkelijke slachtoffercultuur heeft geleid, met de autochtone Nederlander als de permanent gebeten hond, zei ze er maar niet bij. Het grootste probleem in Nederland lijkt me dat iedereen zich inmiddels een slachtoffer waant. Een gevoel van verlies is geen wereldbeeld.That the confusion within that PvdA has still not been cleared up yet is apparent from the position paper on the integration debate that party chair Ploumen revealed last week. In an interview with the Volkskrant she boldly spoke against the culture of victimisation among allochtones; at the same time she repeated the Schefferian [Paul Scheffer reignited the integration debate in the NRC a little less than a decade ago] mantra that the autochtones suffer under a sense of loss, that they had been shamefully misrecognised the past decades. That this sense of loss is in the mean while anything but surpressed and has led to a nasty image of victimisation, with the autochtone Dutch as perpetual bitten dogs, she didn't add.
Zoals je kunt zeggen dat de rigide progressieven van weleer vergaten dat hun idealen een streven uitdrukte in plaats van een onomkeerbaar, wetmatig proces, zo zien de anti-progressieven van nu hun realistische kijk op de menselijke soort steeds meer als een excuus voor onverdraagzaamheid en cynisme - of voor nostalgie naar wat eens was. De uitspraak van PvdA-Kamerlid Spekman over de noodzaak van het vernederen van criminele Marokkaanse jongeren was geen onbezonnen voorstel, het was een pijnlijke capitulatie van een man die niet meer weet waar hij in gelooft. Die geest spreekt ook uit de notitie van Ploumen. In plaats van zich sterk te maken voor het recht om het geloof van anderen te bekritiseren, zou men zich zorgen moeten maken over de vraag hoe je nog geloofwaardig progressief kunt zijn in een anti-progressieve tijd. Pas als die vraag is beantwoord, kan links weer geloofwaardig zijn.As one can say that the rigid progressives of yore forgot that their ideals expressed a pursuit, instead of a irreversible, deterministic process, so the anti-progressives of today see their realistic vision of the human species more as an excuse for intolerance and cynicism - or for nostalgia of things past. The statement of PvdA parliamentarian Spekman on the necessity of humiliating criminal Moroccan youths was no erratic proposal, it was a painful capitulation of a man who no longer knows what he believes in. Instead of speaking out for the right to criticise the beliefs of others, we should be worried about the question how you can be a credible progressive in an anti-progressive age. Only when that question has been answered can the left be credible once again.

Or as I'd prefer to say it, the Dutch have become a nation of navelstaarders with no beliefs, no vision for the future. This too I already addressed in my piece on the Dutch government programme. Things have not improved since. At least in Germany there is a change going on, there is a viable community working on making the country sustainable. The Dutch have been busy letting the rest of the world catch up and pass them by while they focus on distractions for the past eight years, and they show no sign of improving.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Dec 30th, 2008 at 10:50:42 AM EST
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