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Sane evil, as I expected. Better than insane evil, and it's not as if you can expect good so long as "realists" are taken seriously.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman:
Sane evil

oxymoron of the day...

first symptom of anglo-asshole disease, reduce linguistic meaning to zero, then proceed according to agenda plan...

sheesh

leaves us with 'insane good' as the other end of the seesaw.

politics as usual. lesser evil as 'good'

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 05:12:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bollocks.

Evil - being interested only in achieving your own aims regardless of their effect on others (with a side order of enjoying hurting others) - and sanity are orthogonal. Not one-dimensional.

In this case, insane evil would be wildly flailing around the place in a way unlikely even to achieve your aims repeatedly, while sane evil would be acting amorally but effectively to achieve your aims, not making unnecessary enemies or doing unnecessary damage to your own interests.

It's quite possible to have insane good and sane good. I'll let you come up with your own examples.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 05:19:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 06:48:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hope someone defines their version of "evil" first.  Has the makings of a bullshit session I haven't seen since my stoned college days.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 06:55:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
THE Twank: Has the makings of a bullshit session I haven't seen since my stoned college days.

LOL.  Indeed it does!

But he does give a pretty good starter for a definition:

Colman:

Evil - being interested only in achieving your own aims regardless of their effect on others (with a side order of enjoying hurting others)

Lately, I've been hearing and reading more references to "evil" in more "liberal" press.  Like this, for example:

Don't rationalize the evil of terrorism

Don't rationalize the evil of terrorism

Evil In Mumbai : NPR

... after covering too many killings, as a reporter or host, in Bosnia, Kosovo, Oklahoma City or Somalia, I've come to the conclusion that the perpetrators of such crimes might just be ... evil.

Evil is a word that many people of my generation shrink from using. It seems so imprecise and uneducated -- biblical, rather than cerebral and informed.

But there are times and crimes that remind me how often the Bible gets it right.

I can't help but wonder, is it that because now that liberals hold the reins of power in the U.S., we feel more comfortable using words like "good" and "evil" that we used to reproach the conservatives for post-9/11. (I am not referring to Colman here, but to American liberals in the U.S. media.)

Or maybe my assumptions are wrong:  for example, maybe liberals were also condemning evil during the Bush years as well, but i did not pick up on it in the din of the conservative cacophony.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 07:53:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By MY definition, I can catagorically claim that green plants, capable of utilizing solar energy, atmospheric nitrogen, and carbon dioxide for their metabolic purposes ARE NOT EVIL!  Beyond them, you might get into a morass of "evil from whose point of view?".  

Where's my bong?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 08:19:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Did we already have that conversation about whether for plants WE are evil...hey, the bong, man, I think you put it on the shelf.



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 08:29:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh and hey (puff puff), I have a definition of Evil for you:

Evil

A word humans use to give agency to that which fills them with Fear and/or Loathing



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 08:52:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this your personal collection or did you find this photo on the net?  Impressive collection!

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 09:33:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, I thought it was YOUR collection....Twank...WHERE ARE WE?!!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 10:25:23 AM EST
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More importatnly; when are we ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 10:30:29 AM EST
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Well, I think it's 1432, but I could be out by a few years either way.

Hold on.  OF COURSE!  It's YOUR bong collection!  

But...  

(I remember being on the train, I remember Twank producing a grey handkerchief from his pocket, a handkerchief he opened, revealing a brownish lump.  I remember him saying,

"Psychedelic truffle.  Just try a tiny bit.  I want to sell them to afew."

I remember thinking, "Well, anything to help afew!" and taking a bite.

And then I remember a BANG! and a voice shouting, "Bollocks!")

But....Essex?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 11:08:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Tell that to the bacteria they kill.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 09:05:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know what was happening in the liberal newspapers (assuming there are any) but I know that online, condemnation of Bush and Cheney for being evil was popular and common.

I'd like to see a right wing definition of evil that isn't tautological. (E.g. replace 'godless' with 'evil', swap back and forth indefinitely.)

Right wingers believe liberals are evil because...?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 08:32:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have one!  Evil is the most terriblest thing you can think of that you would like to do the exact opposite of all the time, what with you being good.

In the Colman example we can see (get your bong ready) the necessary connection between our concepts of good and evil:

Evil - being interested only in achieving your own aims regardless of their effect on others (with a side order of enjoying hurting others)

As exemplified by Colman's casual

Bollocks

intro, which he typed either regardless of its effect on others (specifically melo), or maybe he typed it with a side order of enjoying hurting others (specifically melo), while intent on "being interested only in achieving [his] aims", which were either to justify his use of "sanely evil" (hope you're puffing hard on that bong!) and/or to poke melo with a pointy stick (back to that enjoyment of hurting others schtick)

All of which leads me to conclude that Colman is Evil.

Your turn!

(Plus I snuck in some oriental philosophy--double bong hit over here, and a glass of beer!)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 08:13:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All of which leads me to conclude that Colman is Evil
Hasn't that been established before? I thought it was an article of faith around here.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 09:02:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
haha, when evil is funny, does it become good?

i think good people can occasionally enjoy acting evil, without doing damage.

'bollocks' is an adorable greeting, is it common in ireland? a sort of friendly kick in the nuts?

never had the privilege of visiting the emerald isle yet.

the colman grump factor is truly one of my favourite things about this blog... you can feel the atlantic gale winds howling and keening in over the sodden heather, aaah, bracing!

:)>:(>:)

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 09:12:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Huh?

From your comments I'd have pegged you more like this:

though more combed, of course.

If you want a serious point, I don't think you would have taken that tone with, say, InWales or Jerome--you might have said, "If you don't mind my saying so, I find that to be a bit....bollocks"--the famous Colman humour.

But if you wish to consider yourself unfairly maligned--if your humour bypass is switched ON today--feel free!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 10:24:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman:
Evil - being interested only in achieving your own aims regardless of their effect on others (with a side order of enjoying hurting others) - and sanity are orthogonal. Not one-dimensional.

if you say so. are you describing a personal philosophy here? i see it differently... 'sanity' is a state of cleanliness or health, according to my understanding, etymologically speaking.

so real evil can be coterminous with mental health, in your opinion?

(replaces crotch-guard)

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 09:31:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure how popular that definition of sanity would be.

In the very long term I don't see evil being an effective way of operating, but you'll have to convince a lot of people to abandon foreign policy "realism".

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 09:50:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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