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BTY, American made vehicles were the vehicle of choice for Arabs in Saudi Arabia when I was there.  They were especially fond of large SUVs.  It was a high profit market.  Mercedes also did very well.  Detroit has never done well in low cost vehicles, in part because they have high legacy costs in the form of a long tail of retired workers owed pensions and medical care.  Japanese operated US manufacturing plants as yet have no retirees.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 09:32:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My understanding is that the labor cost in a car is only about 10% of the total. It's a capital intensive business, and Japan has pretty high labor costs just as does the U.S.

And you're right that Ford in Europe knows how to make LHD cars--in order to sell them in Britain. But how many Detroit-made cars find their way to Europe?

by asdf on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 09:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect that the question of legacy costs depends to a large extent on the degree to which the state underwrites the costs of retirement and medical benefits.  If your competitors have only to pay labor costs for those currently working and you have to pay for everyone who ever retired and is still living, you will be at a significant disadvantage.  Same for medical care of retirees.  If your labor costs are 18% and your competition's are 10%, you are still at a disadvantage.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 10:03:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But only if you create more than your share of retirees and medical cases... Universal health care might be cheaper for them overall, because universal health care is much more efficient than having an insurance industry middleman to take a largish cut. But the money comes from somewhere - and I hardly think European or Japanese companies, automobile industry or otherwise, share a smaller fraction of their earnings with society than American ones.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 10:11:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
FWIW, CorpWatch posted a disturbing TQM article this Sept on Toyota's model. It skirts suppliers' industry and markets -- outsourced. And certainly challenges conventional reverence for Japanese efficiency in US/EU management literature.

Despite this commitment, Toyota's foreign workers in Japan are second-class citizens. On arrival the guest workers' passports are confiscated.  During the first year as "trainees," they are not covered by Japan's labor or minimum wage laws. They work alongside Japanese workers, putting in the same long hours, but often earning less than half the minimum wage - as little as $2.76 an hour, or $479 a month. As guest workers, they are required to remain with the same employer - no matter how bad the working conditions - and to live in the company housing assigned to them - even though some are charged twice what their Japanese colleagues pay for comparable accommodations. Any worker who tries to change jobs, or who complains about conditions may be forcibly deported. By the time food, housing, and taxes are deducted, some guest workers end up earning less than $600 for an entire year, according to several advocacy organizations and unions that work with subcontract plant temp and guest workers. ...

In the U.S., Toyota has set up non-union plants in the South - far from the unionized auto industry stronghold of the Midwest. Blunting support for unionization is Toyota's practice of paying wages nearly on par with the U.S. auto companies (around $25 an hour in comparison with G.M.'s $26 to $28) - although with much lower benefits.

Meanwhile the Big Three's falling sales and market share have forced the American companies to adopt, and their workers to accept, two-tier wage and temporary worker schemes eerily similar to those used for years by Toyota - just to compete. And the race to the bottom seems to be just warming up. In September 2008, an internal Toyota memo leaked from its Georgetown, Kentucky plant, laid out management's plans to cut $300 million in labor costs in its U.S. operations.

In April 2008, the Wall Street Journal reported that Toyota plans to end its practice of pegging its hourly wages to UAW rates, and will now pay new hires only 50 percent above the local prevailing wage. In Kentucky, this would mean a savings of about 12 percent, or $3.00 per worker hour - which, of course, will put even more of a squeeze on the Big Three U.S. auto companies and their unionized workforce.

Primary strategy. The 2007 GM-UAW contract was the first "bailout" scheme, to capitalize GM's bond rating and pensions in exchange for slashing wages. At the time Gettlefinger said, union members had made enough sacrifices to allow GM to be competitive with non-union automakers. But he's hinted recently bosses aren't averse to breaking the line in order to support the automakers' pitch to Congress for $34B.

The complete Toyota report is at NICNet.org

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 01:15:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but but isn't that exactly the issue with greencards in the US. Contractors are brought in from abroad, but on a scheme where the company can claim they cannot employ Americans. The workers don't get a green card, but are instead are only allowed leave to remain courtesy of good relations with their employer. any problems, any grumbling, they're deported.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 06:55:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A lot probably depends on what kind of visa they're here on.  I think the situation you're thinking of is sort of a horror story about H-1B visas that you hear about Indians and Chinese in places like Silicon Valley.

Doesn't generally happen that way, in my experience.

Example: A friend of mine is married to a Frenchman[1] who came over on (I'm pretty sure) an H-1B, and who was in the process of getting a green card when they started dating.  The process is expensive and a pain in the ass, but it's a pretty boring and formal process.  I don't think his employer cared much either way.

[1] (See, Jerome, we love the French, even in the South.  And he's not even one of those fake Canadian ones.)

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 08:42:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but but isn't that exactly the issue with greencards in the US.

Why, yes, Helen :) picking scabs is an age-old American pasttime. When when labor organizes and agitates and  wage demands squeeze margins, corporates shanghai recruit the world's poor and yearning to be free. By the boat-load.

Oh. That scrubbed Detroit News article, "$10M cost of do-over is obstacle; powerbrokers in Mich. to press solution with national party"? I saved bits I thought interesting back when... March 2008.

The governor, in an interview with The Detroit News, referred to the contest as a "firehouse primary" -- more expansive than a party caucus but not a full-blown affair like a traditional, state-financed primary. People would have to declare themselves Democrats in order to participate, and the contest would be run by the Democratic Party, not the state.
    [...]
In another development, a new Michigan team was set up Thursday to talk with the Democratic National Committee about a resolution. The members are: U.S. Sen. Carl Levin, U.S. Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, Democratic National Committeewoman Debbie Dingell and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger. All are neutral in the presidential race.
    [...]
The national party needs to ante up or help raise money to pay for it, she said. State taxpayers already shelled out $12 million for the Jan. 15 primary, and Granholm said she won't ask for public funding for a make-up contest. Hillary Clinton won the January primary, but she was the only major candidate [sic] on the ballot. The others, including Barack Obama, had their names removed.
    [...]
Granholm and state Democratic Party Chairman Mark Brewer said the national party has been pushing for party caucuses. Brewer estimated the cost of running a firehouse primary at $10 million, to cover the mechanics, staff and publicity.

There's always more to the story ...

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 09:18:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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