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That's like saying that no one can imagine original architecture because bricks and steel have already been invented.

In fact the opposite true. Real creativity - not imitation, not remixing, not reworking, not repurposing - means having something original and personal to say, and creating some original form and style to express it.

Otherwise there would never be any musical innovation of any sort.

Also, there's a vast and unbridgeable difference between assimilating and reworking a style, and simple-mindedly copying examples of that style with only trivial changes.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 10:18:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe we're seeing legacy apocalypse in music. I still hear plenty that's original, granted. Still the situation is absurd. We have so many melodies singing around in our heads and can't use them in another setting because someone's brought it to the market first.

I don't particularly care for Coldplay, but they seem to have taken a short melody from a chorus and reworked it to make a starting point for their verses. Stylistically it's completely different.

The rules don't prevent simple-minded ripping off of a style. Otherwise things like Republica and Meredith Brooks would never have happened. They do seem to prevent taking a melody and doing something new with it.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:13:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The rules ... seem to prevent taking a melody and doing something new with it.

And that is errant nonsense. That probably falls under fair use.

Why doesn't anyone sue Weird Al Jankovich?

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:17:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But architects cannot copyright their buildings. They receive no royalties year after year from their drawings or designs, or beyond death. The only thing that stops someone building exactly the same building is the sheer stupidity of such a task.

Architects often deliberately reference previous buildings in little design games that only other architects appreciate. There are more than 200 references to previous Modernist buildings in the extension to the Stockmann Department store completed over a decade ago.

If you make something personal and original that affects others, it will be associated with you. It will become part of you. Like the Jackie O pill box hat. It doesn't stop anyone else from wearing a pill box hat, but it may be understood as a reference, as a resonance.

The only reason that music copyright still exists is because the industry business model has evolved in the way it has, starting with sheet music sales for the Strausses et al. It has evolved in the way it has because once large sums of money were to be made, the lawyers moved in and screwed everyone in key. It is an industry still replete of lawyers, hoods, bouncers, thieves and con-men. It is time music was rid of them. Some of it is no better than New World Order professional wrestling.

What is needed is a new type of music business since, I think we would agree, that people will make music whatever happens, and others will gather to take part in it. Music won't disappear, even if the industry does.

I am interested to see what the new music culture will be like. There are many different approaches visible right now. Maybe all of them will be part of the new model, who knows. Maybe none.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:14:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We were talking about creativity, not copyright, which is a different issue.

And you're still confusing references with repetition. Copying a building exactly is indeed a stupid, which is why no one does it.

Copying music closely is less stupid, which is why you can find cover bands in pubs all over the planet, and tribute bands who make a reasonable if not very interesting living reproducing familiar music for nostalgic audiences.

Those experiences certainly have a financial value, even if they're not necessarily at the creative cutting edge.

If there wer no original creative source for them to copy, that financial value wouldn't exist, which suggests there may in fact be rather more happening than a rancid and out of date attempt to copy the sheet music business model.

The Jackie O pill box hat is a silly argument, because it's a mass produced item of clothing, set in a market with a very different culture - fashion is based almost exclusively on top down imitation of celebrity for the sake of it, with no other content - and a very different business model.

No one is going to create a new music culture until people start being more realistic about what makes music valuable. Currently we have an idiotic industry on one side which believes that it's all about a product which might as well be indistinguishable from sandwiches or machine bolts as far as the execs are concerned, and equally idiotic freetards on the other who believe that copying files and using them as the background to a shaky Youtube video of someone having a painful accident makes them heroes of the imminent Open Cultural Revolution.

Neither side understands what music is, what it's for, or why paying musicians to be original might be a good idea.

Until that changes music will continue to be boring - which it surely is at the moment - and we'll entertain ourselves with exciting stories about lawsuits rather than exciting and original creativity.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:38:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, but I disagree. I listen most days to just such creative music.

But at least we agree on the terrible mess of the present music industry and, I hope, the need to change it.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 05:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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