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I don't intend to go into what is sniggering and what is not - you can decide that. If you remember, I am interested in perceptions and behaviours.

Here's an interesting article about bullying (entirely unrelated to the present discussion for the main). The very interesting bit is at the end:

Dr Michael Eslea, senior lecturer in psychology at the University of Central Lancashire said the research was interesting but needed to be repeated in a larger sample.
"A better understanding of the biological basis of these things is good to have but the danger is it causes people to leap to biological solutions - drugs - rather than other behavioural solutions.

My argument has been, consistently here at ET, that behaviour is moulded by drugs. Though internally applied drugs, rather than external.

You must ask emil what his diary was meant to mean and to activate. You must ask him to explain the jargon and the graphics. Just because I 'appreciate' his diary, does not mean that I agree with it or even fully understand it.  It means that there is a glimpse of a 'what-if' insight that seems to be original and, to me, relevant. That is - worth investing my time to try to understand.

I would indeed be prepared to spend several hours preparing an appraisal of this diary, and an explanation of what it means to me - if I thought that I could deliver that analysis to a receptive feedback what-if audience in the snug, without that loudmouth P.N. Other wandering in from the Lounge bar and breathing over my shoulder. Nudge nudge. After all, many of the conversations I have in the RW rotate around this subject. I just spent 3 hours this evening in a delightful dinner with an 84 year old former CEO of a major Finnish industrial company. You'd be surprised how spiritual it was ;-) Impending mortality was ever thus.

It is possible to kill an interesting conversation. I know, I've done it myself here. Emil Möller has posted some challenging diaries here in the past: I haven't always been involved in their commentary - but I have read them all. An inability to manage Jpegs, or write without jargon, is not a barrier to communication. This last occasion - this diary - I wanted to offer some encouragement, but also some scepticism. It would have been nice to continue the what-if discussion without the kids in the back shouting "When are we there?".

Sometimes you have to put in more than you get out. I've had my spats with all of you. I humbly apologize for being illiterate. I just feel that some conversations are best conducted with an open mind and an investment in trying to understand what might be a repudiation of what you believe. If you know everything already, then of course repudiation is the last thing you want. But as the video illuminated, should you have watched it, the Big Mind is about the happiness created by being a Seeker and the recovery of some of your own voices.

Of course, I would say that seeking to be a Seeker IS behavioural. ;-)

There is a much wider context to ET than energy, political power or Aglo disease. That context includes a 'spiritual' element - why are we here? Why are You here? The answers are partly in classical thought, and historical analogues, but also in today's technological zeitgeist that has some phase shifting implications - where some elements and tools of classical thought are no longer so very useful imo...

What I got out of Big Mind, was the idea of wholeness as liberation. Wholeness that puts You into the physical world that science describes. You with your perceptions. You with your behaviours. That is what interests me, and this diary added another couple of pieces to the 10 gazillion piece jigsaw that might be called Jehovah, yod-he-vau-he, or an octagonal equation. It is not a jigsaw that anyone ever completed as far as I know - the difficulty being that there is no picture on the box to work from.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 05:06:20 PM EST
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Glad you watched the Big Mind video - it is a highly fascinating process. It has it's roots in a psychological process or you might even call technique called Voice Dialoge, greated by Hal and Sidra Stone. I have been using it in my word, at times with absolute amazing effect. The Big Mind takes it a step further and I can only recommend it to anbody who wants more answers to 'who am I?'
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 at 03:09:01 AM EST
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I did watch it carefully, and tried to understand the diagrams. I think I got most of it ;-)

Some interesting thoughts occurred as a result of my effort to understand. Those thoughts might have been worth discussing. As would other positive thoughts - by which I mean thoughts directed toward learning something new and possibly useful.

I am sceptical of the Big Mind video lecture situation, because I had a sense that some of the people were directed or directed themselves to offer 'please the authority' answers. Other answers however came out as genuine new thoughts for those who gave them. IMO any method that stimulates greater self and situational awareness - especially if it is gently elucidated and 'loving', is worthwhile.

It would be stimulating to talk more, and I would hope that those people who feel intimidated, enraged or upset by these subjects would just leave such a diary alone and allow it to develop naturally. Disagreements always occur in such discussions - the language is difficult, the words come with so much baggage. But tolerance of those difficulties is necessary for communication.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Nov 9th, 2008 at 03:35:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven Triloqvist:
intimidated, enraged or upset by these subjects would just leave such a diary alone and allow it to develop naturally.

come on sven, you know PN'ing is fun!

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Nov 9th, 2008 at 08:17:01 PM EST
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Sven Triloqvist:
I am sceptical of the Big Mind video lecture situation, because I had a sense that some of the people were directed or directed themselves to offer 'please the authority' answers.

I find that holds true for almost any training program. Though, I found it interesting to go along with the process myself and was more interested in what I could come up myself.

I agree with you that it would be nice to have some more openness for different ideas. I am glad emil posted the link to the Big Mind, because I was tempted to do it myself a few months back, but decided against it because I was wary about the reactions it might receive here. I love to share and explore different kinds of ideas, even things I do not believe - but I have trouble if I have to prove things. I am not interested in proving things, often I do not even care if they are true. In case of the Big Mind, is it true that we have different parts? I am aware that it is a concept, that probably isn't true, but it works to create more balance and to even solve problems.

What I am interested in is if ideas or concepts work or help to solve problems. I found that there are things that work for me, but not for others or that things work for others, but not for me. What I am really interested in is to explore human potentials and how we can overcome limitations.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Nov 9th, 2008 at 11:40:38 PM EST
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If I have the same interest in 'things which may not be true' for a different reason: my work is mostly about understanding audiences in order to influence them. For this reason I read a lot of media that I don't 'agree with' to find out what the experience is for these audiences. I trust this often more than the detailed demographic research that is available to professionals in my field.

So - by reading this - am I subverted? Am I changed by exposure to such communication. Perhaps in same way I must be. It is hard to unlearn stuff ;-)

But with the Big Mind, or any other challenging idea, I like to treat it as I would watching a movie - allowing it into my mind to experience it as other movie goers (or seminar goers and any other audiences) experience it. Only then can I find out if the dialogue (or the movie) is useful. In other words I try to prejudge as little as possible.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 at 01:52:30 PM EST
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