Seems it's there and for a generation at least. Unless the actual proposition can be declared null due to a conflict in legal terminologies which I confess I didn't follow. But if that fails I suspect California has become an official H8 ST8 until such time as someone suggests and implements a separation between church and state. I think the US could use such an idea.
Some have also suggested that as the documentation exists to prove that this was official political action by both the Mormons in Utah and the Catholic church in California, it could have implications for their tax-free status. That said, I haven't noticed up to now any issues for right wing churches indulging in political activity and doubt it will change any time soon.
I'd like to think there would be a gay exodus to the East coast but I doubt it. keep to the Fen Causeway
As John Stewart pointed out there's something ironic about the LDS campaigning for marriage to be between one man and one woman seeing as that's not how they do it themselves. keep to the Fen Causeway
It's expensive keep defending these thingsand it's draining. How'd you like to have to keep defending your marriage every two years ?
I'd enthusiastically defend mine and theirs every two years. And I'd keep donating to it just to make the LDS members piss their magic underwear. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
I understand it, there is a legal difference between an amendment and a revision. Instituting an addition to the constitution is an amendment and requires a 50% + 1 vote, which is why prop8 goes in.
But to remove it becomes a revision, which requires a super majority, the actual size of which I'm not sure but might be 66%. That's an electoral barrier of a considerablly different order.
Of course, I'm not a constitutional scholar, so I could be completely wrong about this, but that's what I'm getting from the diaries on dKos discussing it. It's good that Kos is fired up about it, but he never discussed the probable electoral issue.
Equally, I go back to the point I made elsewhere, it may be fun for the majority group to have these battles, but for the people whose rights are being fought over, it's draining. They don't want these battles over their rights, they're sick and tired of being sick and tired. They are citizens; they don't want special privleges, they don't want special laws. They just want their rights, the same as everybody else. Nothing less, nothing more. keep to the Fen Causeway
Equally, I go back to the point I made elsewhere, it may be fun for the majority group to have these battles, but for the people whose rights are being fought over, it's draining. They don't want these battles over their rights, they're sick and tired of being sick and tired. They are citizens; they don't want special privleges, they don't want special laws. They just want their rights, the same as everybody else. Nothing less, nothing more.
With the exception of Kos, who'd happily wage multi-million-dollar wars over zoning provisions if given the opportunity just for the sake of fighting, you surely can't think this is fun for those of us who support same-sex marriage. That's ridiculous. Many straight people poured a lot of money and time, some of which they undoubtedly couldn't much afford, to kill Prop 8. They weren't, and aren't, there to defend themselves but because they believe in defending others. Any fool will seek to defend his own rights. It takes more than the search for "fun" to put that kind of effort into defending others' rights. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
There's the feeling you get when you lose a fight and feel bad about it and feeling bad for the people you might mistakenly imagine you have let down.
And then there's the feeling you get when you lose a fight and realise that you, personally, have had your rights stripped from you. Knowing that, as you go about your day, 50% of the people you see are likely to have voted to remove your civil rights. Because they have sat in judgement on you. Based not on who you are because they don't care. They don't know you, don't know anything about you, but they don't care. Because they only care about one thing about you; you happened to fall in love with somebody of your own sex and they despise you for it.
And you have to live with that. Not just that people disapprove, all gay people know that, but that there are so many that they are the majority in your life. And they hate you so much that they don't just disapprove, they were given the chance to make your life that little bit more miserable and gladly took it. And you learn to fear what else they might do.
Gay people get mocked and called names. Gay people get beaten up. Gay people get killed. But until now, nobody ever took their rights away.
You may think it's the same. But it ain't. keep to the Fen Causeway
Being tired of being tired is understandable. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be back in two years trying to win the fight. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
That's probably unfair, but given what's happening here tomorrow, the prop8 thing has felt very personal to me this week so I guess I feel exposed. keep to the Fen Causeway
So I guess if the GLBT advocates can build a base of support in the non-white community, they can beat the magic underwear off the LDS (particularly given current demographic trends in CA).
Of course, that would probably take more than 2 years. )-: "Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut
Obama could have spoken out, loudly. He chose not to.
And it needs to be said: in the face of the Mormons, etc. the anti-8 forces were not well organized or coordinated. Even in the week before the 4th, there was too much dissension and disagreement over tactics, etc. See Petelis' blog for one view of this.
(I know it is difficult to imagine gays and the American left in general being disorganized and schism-prone, but there it is.)
Obama could have spoken out, loudly. He chose not to
Oh, but he did. Obama is against gay marriage (as is Biden) and said so, in California, two weeks ago. The Yes on Prop8 people had the ads out within hours. keep to the Fen Causeway
Biden at least appeared on tv and said he would vote against if he lived there, and encouraged others to do the same.
If the Governator can figure it out, why the hell couldn't Obama?
A Community Organizer.
We sure need one. Cause divided--we die. I trust little. But I am tempted to trust the survival instincts of humanity. Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.
Leaders set the tone and tell the story for those they lead
Obama is against gay marriage (as is Biden) and said so, in California, two weeks ago. The Yes on Prop8 people had the ads out within hours.
Some leadership we don't need. keep to the Fen Causeway
Those who are on the margins, who don't have such privilege, those who feel they have to negotiate their rights on a daily basis feel no such peace of mind when under attack. They have everything to lose and little to gain from such battles. And no peace of mind while the battles continue to rage.
There is a difference between a right and a concession. Rights are yours by dint of citizenship and are not for others to take away on a whim of distaste and of electoral tyranny. That instead defines a condition of concession where an "out" group are accorded limited "authorisations" on the conditional basis of continued patronage by the majority group, a patronage that may be withdrawn at any time.
Let me one day tell you about being a male bellydancer and the myriad ways I was constantly reminded I was only there on concession and not by right.
Let me describe (Friday) the sorts of debates certain wimminists would allow the transgendered where the guiding principle is on whether we even have a right to exist and have access to medical intervention. keep to the Fen Causeway
Oct 21 2008 Where do the presidential candidates stand on issues of importance to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and trans community? Here is a brief comparison of John McCain and Barack Obama on LGBT issues. Employment Non-Discrimination Currently there is no federal protection for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender workers. In most states, people can still be fired for being gay. * Barack Obama supports ending employment discrimination against the LGBT community. * John McCain does NOT support ending employment discrimination, in fact, he voted against the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) in 2007. Gays in the Military Currently openly gay and lesbian people are not allowed to serve in the military. Enacted in 1993, Don't Ask, Don't Tell prohibits military personnel from asking a service person if he or she is gay or lesbian. However, if a person discloses that he or she is gay, they will be discharged. * Barack Obama opposes "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and supports the rights of gay and lesbian soldiers to serve openly. * John McCain believes that gays and lesbians should not be in the military. He supports "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Gay Marriage Currently only California, Massachusetts and Connecticut allow gay marriage. Several other states allow civil unions and domestic partnerships. * Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, but he is against gay marriage. * John McCain does not support gay marriage and campaigned for a state amendment that would have banned civil unions and domestic partnerships. Defense of Marriage (DOMA) Law The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) does two things. First it says that no state shall be required to recognize the laws of another state in regard to same-sex marriage. Second, it defines the words "marriage" and "spouse" in Federal Law. * Barack Obama is against DOMA and supports the repeal of the federal Defense of Marriage Act. * John McCain voted for and supports the Defense of Marriage Act. Hate Crimes Law A Federal Hate Crimes law would help local law enforcement officials in investigating crimes against someone based on their sexual orientation or gender identity. * Barack Obama supports a hate crimes bill that will protect the LGBT community from bias-motivated violence. * John McCain has voted against hate crimes legislation three times. HIV/AIDS The Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act (CARE) is the largest sources of federal funds for primary health care and support services for HIV/AIDS. * Barack Obama supports the Ryan White CARE Act and supports comprehensive sex education aimed at preventing disease. * John McCain voted for a Jesse Helms strategy to remove funding aimed at protecting the LGBT community from HIV/AIDS. He supports abstinence-only education. Gay and Lesbian Adoption * Barack Obama supports adoption by LGBT people. * John McCain opposes adoption by LGBT people. http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/a/McCainObama.htm
Oct 21 2008
Where do the presidential candidates stand on issues of importance to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and trans community? Here is a brief comparison of John McCain and Barack Obama on LGBT issues.
Employment Non-Discrimination
Currently there is no federal protection for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender workers. In most states, people can still be fired for being gay.
* Barack Obama supports ending employment discrimination against the LGBT community. * John McCain does NOT support ending employment discrimination, in fact, he voted against the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) in 2007.
Gays in the Military
Currently openly gay and lesbian people are not allowed to serve in the military. Enacted in 1993, Don't Ask, Don't Tell prohibits military personnel from asking a service person if he or she is gay or lesbian. However, if a person discloses that he or she is gay, they will be discharged.
* Barack Obama opposes "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and supports the rights of gay and lesbian soldiers to serve openly. * John McCain believes that gays and lesbians should not be in the military. He supports "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Gay Marriage
Currently only California, Massachusetts and Connecticut allow gay marriage. Several other states allow civil unions and domestic partnerships.
* Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, but he is against gay marriage. * John McCain does not support gay marriage and campaigned for a state amendment that would have banned civil unions and domestic partnerships.
Defense of Marriage (DOMA) Law
The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) does two things. First it says that no state shall be required to recognize the laws of another state in regard to same-sex marriage. Second, it defines the words "marriage" and "spouse" in Federal Law.
* Barack Obama is against DOMA and supports the repeal of the federal Defense of Marriage Act. * John McCain voted for and supports the Defense of Marriage Act.
Hate Crimes Law
A Federal Hate Crimes law would help local law enforcement officials in investigating crimes against someone based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.
* Barack Obama supports a hate crimes bill that will protect the LGBT community from bias-motivated violence. * John McCain has voted against hate crimes legislation three times.
HIV/AIDS
The Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act (CARE) is the largest sources of federal funds for primary health care and support services for HIV/AIDS.
* Barack Obama supports the Ryan White CARE Act and supports comprehensive sex education aimed at preventing disease. * John McCain voted for a Jesse Helms strategy to remove funding aimed at protecting the LGBT community from HIV/AIDS. He supports abstinence-only education.
Gay and Lesbian Adoption
* Barack Obama supports adoption by LGBT people. * John McCain opposes adoption by LGBT people.
http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/a/McCainObama.htm
I think the genral argument that "if it's the same as marriage, why not call it that ? But if it's it's not the same as marriage, then it's enshrining a second class civil right status for a minority group into law. keep to the Fen Causeway
"We're born eventually to die, of course. But what happens between the time we're born and we die? We're born to live. One is a realist if one hopes." "Well, through all these years there have been the people I'm talking about, whom we call activists ... who give us hope and through them we have hope."
"We're born eventually to die, of course. But what happens between the time we're born and we die? We're born to live. One is a realist if one hopes."
"Well, through all these years there have been the people I'm talking about, whom we call activists ... who give us hope and through them we have hope."
