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We slammed those below Dubya, too. Already, I am slamming Rahm Emanuel, and asking Drew about the composition of the Democrat congressional majority. So don't be reductionist. Not to mention that you spoke about global leadership, not US.

Let me mention two things that bug me about "leadership", beyond my anti-Atlanticism and the bad allusions in German.

First, by praising leadership abilities, one forgets that in a democracy, leaders are supposed to get their power from the people. What politicians should have is not some magic ability to go ahead, but ideas, then we the people decide which is the best idea and give the guy powers to attempt to realise it.

Second, the present-day concept of leadership is very closely linked to, I would even say was introduced by, neoliberalism. What neoliberals understand under "leadership" is the ability to push through unpopular reforms -- in effect, stuff they have NOT been elected for -- best by getting people to accept it in the process.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 02:54:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Authoritarians have always had a contempt for the people, whether in a democracy or no.  the neo-libs simply turned it into a marketing problem - how to sell policies no one (except the elite) really wanted.  Lefties on the other hand will always slam anyone in power - until they get into power themselves.  Ok - that was unkind and unfair - some anarchists and alternative types would prefer if their were no large power structures of any kind at all.  Unfortunately that makes them very vulnerable to conquest by the authoritarians who will sell their product as the "order" everyone apparently needs and wants - when what they really want is to be left alone by the authoritarians.  Hell I don't need to say this to you.  You've just written a brilliant diary history of the Ottoman invasions of Hungary.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 03:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Authoritarians have always had a contempt for the people, ...Lefties on the other hand will always slam anyone in power

What's your take on the long history of Leftist Authoritarian regimes?  LOL.  

But seriously, this is an oversimplification and does not really illustrate an appreciation for the relationship between people and their leaders outside the world of Hollywood cartoons.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 03:50:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you just want to insult people and claim a superior political wisdom why waste your time on this blog?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 05:07:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who did I insult?  Have I wasted your time?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 05:10:07 PM EST
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If you consider my understanding of politics to be the equivalent of a Hollywood cartoon then I am deeply insulted and I can't understand why you would be bothered to read and comment on my stuff - other than to be gratuitously offensive.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 05:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or, crazy idea, because I want the people who read this blog to think about things critically instead of simplistically.  It's ok to disgree, but facts remain facts and pointing them out is not a personal insult but an attempt to keep the conversation within the realm of reality.


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 05:19:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What "facts" have you pointed out which demonstrate that my argument is equivalent in sophistication to a Hollywood cartoon?  And if my argument has strayed from the "realms of reality", in what way have you proved you have a superior grasp of reality?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 05:26:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The existence of leftist authoritarian regimes would seem to invalidate your statement.  My pointing out their existence has obviously upset you.  And yes, I do find vast generalisations about politics cartoonish and formulaic and out of sync with what I have witnessed.  The election of Obama shows that people with left-leaning ideology are craving strong leadership.  Meanwhile, many conservatives are terrified of the power the newly elected leadership will wield.  Everything is not as black and white as you present it.    

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 05:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You conveniently left out the last part of may sentence you quoted: (omitted part in bold)
Frank Schnittger:
Lefties on the other hand will always slam anyone in power - until they get into power themselves.
which was a deliberate jibe at the historical tendency for some anti-establishment lefties to become even more authoritarian when they achieved power themselves.  So pointing out that some leftwingers can be authoritarian doesn't upset me at all.  In fact I stated that:  Frank Schnittger:
The system of global capitalism we live under - dominated by global corporations - is largely American in origin, ideology, design and control.  

Many people recognise that for all its faults - it is better than the competing systems of Nazism and Stalinism it defeated.

And this is not a generalisation?  poemless:

The election of Obama shows that people with left-leaning ideology are craving strong leadership.

Really?  Obama got rather more than the votes of left leaning ideologists.  Most wanted alternate leadership to McCain/Palin, and authoritarianism in an US context seems to be more characteristic of right wingers - left wingers often being called liberals with good reason.

And yes of course there are lots of generalisations in my diary.  There always are in short pieces.  If I want to write an academic piece I will do so in an academic context, and I won't try to write a history of the recent world in 20 paragraphs.

I'm sorry I didn't get to read your diary.  I meant to and perhaps you present an alternate argument there.  However even if I disagreed with it I promise I wouldn't accuse you of a Hollywood cartoon character level of understanding.  I think it helps to be  bit more careful and respectful in your criticisms.

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 06:20:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I think it helps if you chill out.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 06:23:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Always happy to chill - and to argue my case - the more so if others accuse me of being incapable of doing so to any worthwhile level.  However I take this as an offer of a truce - and am happy to accept.  I may have mistaken a Manta for a Sting ray...

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 06:50:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey - didn't you call me a bottom feeder once?  Watch out, us Manta Rays have superior memories! ;)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 06:20:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, I have not claimed a superior political wisdom, but if you think I am guilty of that, well, I'm not going to pretend I don't know what I know in order to avoid making others feel ignorant.  Jerome and other talk about economics in a way that makes me feel stupid, but I'm pretty sure I've learned a lot as a result of them not pretending to be ignorant.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 05:16:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lefties on the other hand will always slam anyone in power - until they get into power themselves.

True.  And, in that case, a new group of Lefties will slam the newly-empowered Lefties.  It's part of our charm, amigo. ;)

I've always said: Liberals are the Mets fans of politics.  When our team fucks up, we boo them and start throwing things.  To the extent that it goes well beyond constructive criticism, and we only finally feel like we've fucked ourselves with our pants on after it's too late.

Which is why I've preached that folks need to calm down right now and not get worked up over the presence of Rahm Emanuel or someone like him unless there's something concrete that Obama does on policy to warrant getting worked up.  It's of no use and without merit until then, so sit back, give'em a chance to prove themselves, and rule afterwards.  Suspicion?  Totally understandable.  Endless OHNOEZICANHAZPANCAKEZ!@ diaries on Daily Kos?  No, those folks need to get a grip.

I stopped worrying about Obama quite a while ago after coming to the conclusion that he'd consistently thought stuff out well ahead of how far ahead I'd thought stuff out.  He assembled probably the greatest campaign staff in American history and took down two of the greatest names in American politics, the Clintons and John McCain.  I'm not sure people appreciate how amazing a feat that truly is.  I like to think of myself as someone who understands the mathematics of campaigns pretty well, but I'm not fit to shine these guys' shoes.  Obama's earned a little leeway from me.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 07:23:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
His press conference was pretty assured today - for someone who had probably just been give 20 conflicting pieces of advice - nice bit of humour about the dog and the seances too.  He only talks to living Presidents?  Don't know quite how canned the question were, but he matched to wrap his answers around the key campaign talking points.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 07:41:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Some presidents are good at press conferences, some aren't.  Kennedy was great.  He was always happy to spar with the press, and the press loved him for it.  Bush is awful in press conferences.

The economic advisory board is a decent cast of characters, but he probably wasn't being given too much differing advice.  There's been a unifying of the two wings of the Democratic Party's economic people over the last few years.  Whereas under Clinton, you had two camps --the Public Investors/Economic Activists (Reich, Krugman, Stiglitz) and the Budget Hawks (Summers, Rubin) -- you now have a group that largely agrees and fits more with the former category.  Summers has talked a great deal about fighting wage stagnation.  Rubin has 'fessed to Reich being right about public investment.

So, on the economic front, I'm optimistic.  I think there's plenty of agreement on the critical stuff.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 at 07:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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