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For Chechens, Putin was no improvement over Yeltsin, not at all. For Afghanis and Iraqis, Obama may not be one, either.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 at 10:18:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Chechnya did actually cross my mind when I wrote it. And yes, being a more effective emperor will mean that he will be more effective at making life miserable for those he decides to make life miserable for.

But I don't think he'll be making life miserable for quite as many people.

Obviously, the world would be a better place without emperors. But until that happy day, I'd much prefer smart emperors over stupid ones.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 at 11:02:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I prefer Mussolini over Hitler.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 at 11:28:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Before the above is misunderstood as an analogy between Hitler and Obama or Putin (pace poemless), I should make my argument explicit.

You'll notice that I have't argued that Putin was worse than Yeltsin for the majority of the citizens of Russia, or even for EU-Russia relations. Indeed I do not think so. But I won't draw a general conclusion from this specific example. I brought up Hitler and Mussolini to counter JakeS's general claim.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 at 02:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Point taken.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 at 04:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A case could certainly be made that Hitler wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer either.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 at 04:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We need to draw a distinction between delusional and reality based leaders.  Hitler and the neo-cons were both delusional to a degree, failing to see almost no limits to their own power and no bases for the power of their opponents.  These guys are ultimately defeated when their  delusions are defeated by reality - but often at great cost.  

Putin and Obama, I would argue are realists by comparison.  They have a more sober appreciation of the limits of their own power and the reasons why others might oppose them.  They are more amenable to negotiated solutions taking both their interests and those of their competing powers into account.  They can build on common interests rather than polarising situations to such a degree that only extreme force - on either side - can resolve the conflict of interest.

Obama may not be a starry eyed idealist who will bring peace in our time overnight.  But neither would he start stupid wars, and or re-polarise situations that are starting to find a relative level of stability.  That is  huge improvement on where we have been, and I will take it for the moment.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun Nov 9th, 2008 at 09:29:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that distinguishing between delusional and sane leaders is a better split than between dumb and smart ones.

OTOH, while being smart does not guarantee that one is not delusional, there is a point where dumb and delusional become virtually indistinguishable.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Nov 9th, 2008 at 12:16:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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