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Well this is nothing short of an astonishing comment.

I think the problem is one of style more than of substance. Frankly, this diary reads like it's written for a newspaper.

"It reads like", you say, but you don't venture to elaborate as to your objections to the substance of the diary, nor do you provide counter arguments or substance.

You've been reading too much DailyKos. I think you'll have to search far and wide around here to find anybody who won't agree that Israel routinely violates international law and common decency. But I'll admit that the topic probably doesn't generate as much interest as it would for an American audience. Israel is, after all, chiefly an American problem, and given the current geopolitical situation, the solution (if any) will chiefly be an American solution.

I neither read nor contribute to DailyKos, thank you, and the notion that Israel is "an American problem" is perfectly preposterous! Please substantiate this statement. Is it an admission that the UN has been gutted of its authority and that US foreign policy has become "the law"?

Yes in the sense that of course I care, in much the same way that I care about Indochina or Central Africa: I don't think that Palestine is particularly special

This is the cheap fall-back argument that because Africa, Indochina and the Ile de Nullepart are mistreated the present embargo and starvation of the Palestinians is no big deal.

This argument is a nonsequitur. Europe has everything to do with the the problems in Palestine. Everything! From 1918 to this day. And that the EU should be shirking its duty, withholding its contribution to a peace settlement in Palestine is, in my view, nothing short of scandalous.

by Loefing on Fri Dec 19th, 2008 at 07:22:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the notion that Israel is "an American problem" is perfectly preposterous! Please substantiate this statement. Is it an admission that the UN has been gutted of its authority and that US foreign policy has become "the law"?

The UN has been a bad joke since the collapse of the Soviet Union - at least.

But on the substance, Israel is in the US sphere of influence - are you going to contest that fact? And as long as the Americans keep running guns to Israel and giving them economic aid, Israel can keep having Apartheid.

Neither of those are of course inevitable: The UN could be restored to some semblance of relevance if and when one or more major powers decided to enforce UN decisions that go against the US and their clients. And Israel could probably be pried out of the US sphere of interest if we tried really hard.

But both of those venues of change fall under "general geopolitical considerations" - namely the consideration that we need to get our act together and stop being nice, well-behaved vassals for the American empire. Until and unless Europe takes an independent, credible stance in favour of human rights and rule of law, Europe cannot do anything about Palestine.

This is the cheap fall-back argument that because Africa, Indochina and the Ile de Nullepart are mistreated the present embargo and starvation of the Palestinians is no big deal.

This argument is a nonsequitur. Europe has everything to do with the the problems in Palestine. Everything! From 1918 to this day. And that the EU should be shirking its duty, withholding its contribution to a peace settlement in Palestine is, in my view, nothing short of scandalous.

It is not "no big deal" and it is scandalous. But it's the tail, it's not the dog. Until and unless something is done about the general, structural reasons that Europe supports mistreatment of people elsewhere in the world, nothing serious will be done about Palestine - all you will see is sternly worded letters, impressive-looking conferences and impeccably-dressed diplomats that say nothing much at all.

Look at the whole dog, not just at the tail. That's all I'm trying to say here.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Dec 19th, 2008 at 08:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is no question that the issue of Palestine is just one of many human rights injustices going on today across the world, in which the US and the EU are implicated. So you are not incorrect. They too should be talked about and publicized, the emphasis being on "too." We need to engage them all.

B'Tselem, the Israeli human rights organization, just opened a branch in the US, following a move of the Israel Committee Against House Demolition (ICAHD), which now has subsidiaries in the US and Britain in order to better publicize the Palestinian rights issue.

Should they instead remain silent, just because they are advocating for a small part of the elephant?

by shergald on Sat Dec 20th, 2008 at 09:48:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Loefing:
Well this is nothing short of an astonishing comment.

I think the problem is one of style more than of substance. Frankly, this diary reads like it's written for a newspaper.

"It reads like", you say, but you don't venture to elaborate as to your objections to the substance of the diary, nor do you provide counter arguments or substance.

I read Jakes comment as a blunt statement of facts.

In my opinion, what generates a lot of discussion on ET is controversial statements (see Valentin for examples) or interesting details that can be sorted out (looka at the recent Croatia thread). Palestine is neither, it is a tragedy. Shergald would probably cause much more discussion if s/he wrote a diary that argued that Israels policies are proportional, justified or something like that. Actually I think there are such threads, not started by Shergald though.

A personal approach - I was here, I did this, I felt this - also brings comments but of a different kind. Sharing begets sharing. Oh, appeals for help also generates comments, as long as the appeal is concrete and within the means of the readers.

Shergald writes well-written reports, but generally speaking that is not what generates discussion here.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Dec 21st, 2008 at 04:20:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The fact that Palestine diaries don't get enough attention is sad and I think it reflects our helplessness to make a difference.  

However that does not, in any way, force JakeS to repeatedly comment on a subject he feels is not important to him, so I don´t see the purpose.  The comments reflect denial and rational escapism, from not wanting to deal with the human tragedies it entails, in Palestine, or elsewhere. That diminishes and distracts from the subject and discourages discussion.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Dec 21st, 2008 at 06:27:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do read every one, but am wary of commenting in case the site gets flooded by people yelling that we're all anti-semites.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Dec 21st, 2008 at 06:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All the comments I have seen here are clearly pro-human rights, so I hope there is no chance of that  contamination from US blogs´ fears.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Dec 21st, 2008 at 07:59:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
metavision:
The fact that Palestine diaries don't get enough attention is sad and I think it reflects our helplessness to make a difference.

I agree.

metavision:

However that does not, in any way, force JakeS to repeatedly comment on a subject he feels is not important to him, so I don´t see the purpose.  The comments reflect denial and rational escapism, from not wanting to deal with the human tragedies it entails, in Palestine, or elsewhere. That diminishes and distracts from the subject and discourages discussion.

I guess I read Jake a bit differently. I read his comments as an attempt to explain the lack of comments, despite the ongoing tragedies.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Dec 21st, 2008 at 07:19:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I realise this turns into very meta-comment territory (pun so intended). And I am sick of feeling helpless and being cynical about it.

Lets get some ET-activism instead!

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Dec 21st, 2008 at 07:51:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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