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I have what I call the square wave theory of pricing (commodities, stocks, money, real estate, etc.)

A square wave is a function which moves along at a fixed value for awhile then suddenly switches to another before switching back in a repeating cycle.

In sound this makes a harsh buzzing noise.

In the real world signals can't jump instantaneously  from one value to the other so there is a bit of jitter before the new value settles down.

A picture will illustrate:

According to my theory when we are seeing rapid fluctuations in price it means that there is soon to be a sudden jump to the new state. In human terms in means there is a fundamental shift taking place in the social and/or economic structure of society and people haven't yet adapted to the new reality.

In addition to the currency fluctuations we have seen the rapid changes in oil prices, interest rates and, of course, stock prices.

What the new "reality" will look like is anyone's guess. I offered my 2 cents on how to influence the outcome in my latest essay.

The future is not foreordained, but letting things drift is never the best idea.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 09:37:55 AM EST
You can get that from a diffusion process in a double-well potential. The large jumps are the classical analogue of quantum tunnelling between the two wells.

Now imagine an adiabatically changing potential, which sometimes has only one well but may develop secondary wells and a cusp catastrophe.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 09:43:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In English, please!

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 09:46:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean with charts and formulas? :-P

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 09:47:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How about language a non-(physics/math) wiz could understand?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 10:07:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can come up with a mean-reverting stochastic model which might superficially replicate the periods of "stable" prices. This could be extended to a model in which there are two nearby "stable" prices, in which case the stochastic model would look superficially similar to what rdf posted. You could then imagine that the position of the "stable" prices and their relative stabllity would change slowly with time. This would entail that after jumping back and forth the "square wave" would not return exactly to the previous "stable" level. Finally, you could model a the emergence of a new regime. Initially you would have just a single stable price but then a second stable point would develop and gradually become dominant. For the period where neither of the two points is dominant you would observe jumps back and forth in rdf's square wave fashion. Eventually the new regime would take over.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 11:17:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, of course.  How simple.  What was I thinking?  What?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 11:30:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay, answer me this. Do you understand rdf's top-level comment, fully?

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 11:35:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Doubt it.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 11:40:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So maybe you can start by enumerating the bits (jargon or full sentences, or charts) of his comment you don't understand and we'll go from there. Eventually we might get to my comment.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 11:42:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sh*t, I'm an old f*ck.  By the time we get there, my corpse will be toasting in a cremation oven.  What a warm, cozy thought.

Thanks anyway.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 12:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My point is, if you understood rdf you would be able to ask me more than "Wud!!??"

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 12:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Correct.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 12:02:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When chaging between 2 stable states, there is chaos during the change.

Previous stable state: Anglo-disease (30 years of it)
Now: Chaos (the chaos can still increase from our current point, or decrease...)
Sometime in the future: another stable state (insert your favourite forecast of the future here).

by t-------------- on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 11:48:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way one can only apply this to peak oil. We are in chaos space now.

Of course, as to peak oil we can also think that the model(s) (in the short-medium term) are fcking wrong: as most models have an implicit assumption of inifite demannd (or demand to the level of maximum production).

If demand falls dramatically then there might not be peak oil after all (especially if, in the mean time, or dear leaders are prescient enough to take this oppportunity to convert our economies from black to green)

by t-------------- on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 11:55:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way one can only apply this to peak oil.

Can you explain this?

If that is the case, the "old state" cannot be simply described as "Anglo Disease".

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 11:59:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean the wave model. Only the model and not the instance. In this case:

Old state: low prices
Chaos: The current ups and downs
New state: high prices

But again, peak oil might be wrong if demand goes down and there is a massive switch from black to green (energy) before demand rises again.

by t-------------- on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 12:19:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There may be more than two states.

There's also no guarantee of stability. Because in fact we haven't really had economic stability for the last thirty years - far from it.

What we've had is a relatively stable political system which has been implemented and sustained using economic jargon as a rhetorical narrative device.

Expecting that economic jargon - which is made of sandcastles floating on bullshit, as JK Galbraith has almost pointed out - to provide an insight into any stable political system in the future might possibly be optimistic.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 05:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is way too complicated. You can get that type of path from a Levy Flight. Such processes are sometimes used to model foraging behaviour of animals (which has a nice amount of Anschaulichkeit to it).

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$
by martingale on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 09:47:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What the new "reality" will look like is anyone's guess.

this new "reality" is not going to favor "the common man"?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 09:45:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Depends on what kind of dune buggy, shoulder pads, and chains the "common man" has.
by Zwackus on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 04:38:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, were it a digital signal, all the information could still be recovered, even if the wave was attenuated to, say, 0.2. ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 09:51:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
is that the same with any mobile phone company? ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 10:00:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bad metaphor. You can design an analogue system which can handle square waves accurately. You only get distortion and ringing in certain circumstances.

In a digital system you wouldn't get any signal at all at an attenuation of 0.2 because that would be too small to switch bits.

It's more likely that there's a chaotic instability happening which may - or may not - lead to a dramatic state change.

But unlike chaotic processes in nature, economies don't just happen. They're engineered to work in a certain way for the benefit of certain people.

Nothing in economics is inevitable or out of human hands. The problem is making sure it's the right human hands doing the engineering.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 10:06:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is making sure it's the right human hands doing the engineering.

Why do I get the feeling it's the Phil Graham/Grover Norquist types who will be the "human hands"?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 10:11:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To go with the control theory metaphor mentioned in a previous post, this is the response of a feedback loop with too high a controller gain.
by tjbuff (timhess@adelphia.net) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 02:23:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
According to my theory when we are seeing rapid fluctuations in price it means that there is soon to be a sudden jump to the new state.
But what you are showing is under-damped oscillation of a step function, as in an electronic system.  Were the period longer, this would turn into a straight line until the next "step."  This would be described as a Chebychiev Function, as opposed to an over-damped or critically damped Butterworth Function.  One question would have to do with the nature of the damping---(not the regulatory environment, surely!)

The more fundamental problem is that the oscillation damps out after the step.  What you are showing is the opposite of what you are describing.  Reverse the arrow of time on your graph and you would be showing what you are describing.  Perhaps Mig could find an anology in quantum theory for such a scheme.  It is far beyond me, but I did spend a lot of time looking at deformed square waves when I was designing audio circuits back in the 70s.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 03:07:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You guys all sound like electrical engineers imagining that you could somehow filter the "noise" out of market price data and you would end up with a "clean" signal which still would have all of these underdamped oscillating features around an "underlying" square-wave "true price" or whatever.

To me, the noise is the signal in financial price series, and if you stripped it out you'd be left with the naked square wave.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 03:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I recognized the function because of my background.  The question I left un-asked is how a theory could be constructed that could relate the function to the economic phenomena it is proposed to describe.  What seemed to me to be the most important part of the comment was that the oscillations damped out afterthe step transition, instead of building up before the transition, as proposed in the theory, and to suggest a model that would conform to the proposed theory by reversing the arrow of time from that shown in the graph.  A really satisfying theory would account for that reversal as well.   The classical economists did too much damage with inappropriate borrowing of math functions from physics for me to want to repeat that!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 04:16:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I said, I don't think it's a helpful or accurate metaphor. Just because you can design analogue circuits that can produce clean square waves doesn't mean you want an economy that does the same, or that square wave oscillations have anything at all to do with real economies.

Real economies are based on politics, not maths. You can't design signal flows until you specify social outcomes, and the big problem we have at the moment - and have had for decades now - is that the people who design the outcomes have been utterly dishonest and manipulative about what they've been trying to achieve.

At best they've been dishonest with themselves, and at worst they've simply been acting criminally.

If you want to model the economy accurately, you don't need square waves, you need special prosecutors.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 05:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your last line is an instant classic.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 05:20:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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