tiagoantao:

I don't see how one can say the process in Ireland was worse than in .ES/FR/NL/PT.

I am quite happy with the constitutional position in Ireland where changes in the Constitution require a referendum.  I thought the YES side fought a lousy campaign last time around, but that is neither here nor there.  The NO side ran an extremely effective scaremongering campaign such that many NO voters genuinely believed that Lisbon would usher in an era of abortion on demand, enforced secularisation, conscription into a European army etc.  But that's Irish politics and it is OUR problem to resolve.

The major argument from the NO side which I object to (and which I thought relevant to raise with a European audience here) is that the NO campaigners claim to represent and speak on behalf of millions of anti-Lisbon people in other European countries.  I object to this because:

1. Sinn Fein et al have no mandate to speak for any electorate outside the island of Ireland

2. people in other countries have elected their own Government and opposition parties to represent them in the European and National parliaments throughout Europe

3. In my view the EU has made a significant historic contribution to democracy, peace and prosperity between protagonists in two world wars, and more recently within formerly fascist and communist states.  I can see no comparable contribution to democracy by Sinn Fein who have only recently stopped killing Irish people - including Irish parliamentarians, police and soldiers.

4. If you want Sinn Fein to be able to claim unchallenged that they represent you as far as Lisbon is concerned, there is nothing I can do to prevent that.  However I thought that many people in Europe, even those angry with how their Governments ratified Lisbon, would still not wish to be represented by the likes of Sinn Fein/Libertas/Coir because they do not support neo-fascist, neo conservative or religious fundamentalist parties in their own countries, and would therefor be principled enough not to do so in Ireland either.  Perhaps I was wrong about this.

5. I believe that if Sinn Fein/Libertas/Coir succeed in their objective of killing Lisbon, the result will be that Ireland will be marginalised and isolated in Europe and that a twin speed Europe will probably result. Thus Ireland will be marginalised within Europe just as potential anti-Lisbon voters were marginalised in other European countries.  I don't expect that European anti-Lisbon sympathisers will be effective in preventing that happening.  I don't want Ireland to become the sacrificial lamb just so that anti-Lisbon Europeans can cock a snook at their own Governments.  It is not anti-Lisbon Europeans in other European countries who will suffer if Ireland IS marginalised - but Irish people themselves.  

6. Even if Ireland is not marginalised, I believe tie EU will be fundamentally weakened and less able to function effectively in a rapidly globalising and destabilising world.  As a small country, Ireland needs the EU a lot more than the EU needs Ireland. Clearly the primary responsibility for preventing this happening rests with Irish people themselves.  However it would have been nice if we didn't have to fight just domestic nationalists and neo-fascists, but also Tory Eurosceptics, US funded Neo-cons, Le Pen, Vaclav Klaus, and sundry European nationalists and neo-fascists as well.

I had hoped to get some support for this larger battle on ET.  As usual, I have been disappointed, and so will take that battle to other forums instead.

notes from no w here