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Just because Le Pen ( or who ever yet) said this it does not make comparison unreliable.I may share this thought even with Le Pen or Vatican.
I find it ironic that Jews now will have Germans guarding their very own concentration camp. And the big white World is standing practically silent (or at least powerless)...just like once before...
And I don't think Bernard of MOA  is stupid...not at all.All tho he seem to be a little bit nervous lately as many other MOA commenters (count me there too).It really makes me feel sick what we are witnessing lately...
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 07:44:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
First, it's the State of Israel and not "Jews"...

Second, if you actually read the Zeit online paper he's referring to, you will find that the German's government is considering the participation of German soldiers in an international peacekeeping force under the following conditions: there must be a cease-fire and both parties must approve the international peacekeeping force and the German participation in it. So, please, don't present this as "Jews hiring German military to guard their own concentration camp".

Third, I didn't say Bernhard was stupid, I said his comment was stupid and insulting.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 08:16:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
OK ...State of Israel, meaning government(s) that had been ELECTED (for decades).
And I remember ALL Serbs were blamed and bombarded for the reason that they ELECTED Milosevic (even tho about 50% always voted for opposition).
Now I am aware that there are JEWS that hate this and basically are against their government but they are lonely in Israel and around Globe...and they are helpless ( as half of Serbs had been).One of them is here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine
This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it. Israel's real aim is not peaceful coexistence with its Palestinian neighbours but military domination.

I think I know about one more rogue state that fits the cap...
I am not sure if that list on MOA of "companies to boycott" and "brands to boycott" because they are serving Israeli's interest is accurate but if it is then I suddenly do not have any more questions...then they practically own everything that makes money and it is obvious why USA will never go against them...then they are free to go nuclear or do what ever they fucking want. I hope the list is fake.Please tell me it's fake...
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 08:47:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not JEWS but ISRAELIS.
I am not sure if that list on MOA of "companies to boycott" and "brands to boycott" because they are serving Israeli's interest is accurate but if it is then I suddenly do not have any more questions...then they practically own everything that makes money and it is obvious why USA will never go against them...
Well, the boycott is a lot broader than that. Just take the first on the alphabetical list: AOL Time Warner:
Over the last 10 years AOL has invested well over half a billion dollars in Israel. In recognition, it was awarded the Jubilee Award in 1998 by the Israeli Prime Minister.
So we're talking about a boycott that seeks to pressure foreign investors to divest from Israel. This is much broader than a boycott of companies whocollaborate with the Israeli occupation. It is also much broader than a boycott of companies owned by Israelis.

Let's stay away from "the jews own everything that makes money". This is a divestment campaign targeting companies that do direct investment in Israel.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 09:01:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's stay away from "the jews own everything that makes money".

I know it sounds bad but...I am in shock!
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 09:13:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
there are JEWS that hate this and basically are against their government

The government of Israel is not the government of the Jews, but the government of Israeli citizens...

then they practically own everything that makes money

Who does "they" stand for?

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 09:12:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who does "they" stand for?

Well this time I can't say Israelis...so it stands for Jews.And as I said I know it sounds bad but if they actually own (one way or another)all those companies or if these companies all invest in Israel heavily ( I can imagine for what reason) then there is nothing for us to hope for...and it is obvious why WEST WORLD is supporting Israel.Please tell me of ONE single western country that openly condemned what Israel is doing? Maybe I missed something...
And did you see that French idiot Kushner in UN laughing like a crazy...
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 09:23:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Rated for holding on to (I know it sounds bad) Antisemitic FUD after careful correction.

if they actually own (one way or another)all those companies or if these companies all invest in Israel heavily ( I can imagine for what reason)

I can imagine for what reason: Israel is a wealthy, westernised consumer culture. Investment improves market access. Also, would you fault AOL for buying up the company that developed the instant messaging protocol ICQ? That sounds like an investment that makes eminent business sense.

This is not to say that they boycott is illegitimate - AOL could have refrained from buying up ICQ on the basis of a boycott of the Israeli economy, which could also have made eminent business sense if a severe boycott was envisaged as a result - and something of this sort was done against South Africa in the 1980's.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 09:42:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
OK rate me as you want but I am definitely not "Antisemitic". To be honest I am sick of the silant rule that nothing negative can be said about "them" cause everyone will jump screaming "Antisemite".
We all know that MOST of the Jews that live outside Israel support Israeli government ( not just retorically but financialy too and some even came to fight).It's their right but it's also my right to condemn it. I hate double standards and Jews are just people as any other people and should be condemned when they are doing something wrong.
As for me I am not in general fan of Islamists (Muslims) cause as you know they did came from Middle East in numbers to my country to fight against my people.
I am just trying to be open and just.
Facts are facts.So if they do own "everything" what is there to hide?I said in advance that I hope the list is fake.And I saw that it is an Islamic nationalistic site and that's why I asked is the list fake...
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:20:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't say you are Antisemitic, I said you "stuck to Antisemitic Fear-Uncertainty-and-Doubt after careful correction".

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:28:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The list is not fake, it just lists something much broader (foreign direct investment) than you think (ownership).

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:29:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know if you are anti-semitic and I don't care. I just say you're channelling anti-semitic ideas and talking points. I rated you 2 to warn you: you have the right to think what you want (or can...), but, please, don't channel these narratives on ET.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 11:45:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why am I (according to you) "channelling anti-semitic ideas and talking points"???
Because I call Jews - Jews and not Israelis? I would call them Israelis gladly but the people I am  talking about in my post (list of company to boycott) are usually not Israelis (but citizens of other states) and they also do not live in Israel.They are Jews (and yes they usually are rich, it's not a sin if they made it legally) who are supporting Israelis government and politic of genocide.
I may be limited in my thinking ( or even more my English language ability) but I am not anti-semitic just because I openly ask and try to find out WHY (the hell) USA Senat and Congres together with practically ALL western governments openly support fashistic state of Israel.
I have nothing against Jews - the people as such but yes I have a lot against those Jews who do support genocide.
If you Westerners had the same attitude about Serbs we wouldn't be bombarded by your NATO forces.    
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 08:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
WHY (the hell) USA Senat and Congres together with practically ALL western governments openly support fashistic state of Israel.

Because Israel is part of The West™ and because of guilt over the holocaust.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 08:59:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK. Next question.
WHY (the hell) Israel is "part of the West"? It is not west, it is not Christian (if you look by standards of previous centuries)...There are others who have democracy, who have market economy etc. (and who are even Christians and Europeans) but still they are NOT part of the West. Even culturally and linguistically they are much closer to their neighbors then to the West Europeans...So this do not "hold water" for me.
Then again Germany was part of the West but it did not bother West to go in to the war with Germany when it ventured in to the fascism? So I still need better explanation for Western support of fascistic state of Israel. And it usually is about money in Western sphere...
The list of the companies (if not fake) that support Israeli government tells a lot to me...
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 09:46:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because the Ashkenazi Jews are Central/Eastern Europeans (Poles Germans). The Sephardic Jews are os Spanish descent. In recent times you had Russian Jews immigrating in massive numbers. I mean, Jiddish is a Germanic, not semitic language. Zionism is a 19th Century European Romantic Nationalist movement. Israel really is a European enclave in the Middle East, culturally.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:00:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Hebrew#Modern_Hebrew
Hebrew (עִבְרִית, `Ivrit) is a Semitic language of the Afro-Asiatic language family. Modern Hebrew is spoken by more than seven million people in Israel and used for prayer or study in Jewish communities around the world. It is the official language of Israel, though English and Arabic are also used there.

I doubt that Jews you are talking about ( Western European Jews generally) live in Israel today...
Israel really is a European enclave in the Middle East, culturally.

Well yes, it all depends what people want to see...But Israelis will have to come to terms that their state is not in Europe and that their neighbors are millions of Arabs...they will need to learn how to live amidst them or they will disappear...
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:29:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Ashkenazi Jews are not Western European Jews.
Many Ashkenazi Jews later migrated, largely eastward, forming communities in non German-speaking areas, including Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Russia, Eastern Europe, and elsewhere between the 10th and 19th centuries. With them, they took and diversified Yiddish, a Germanic Jewish language that had since medieval times been the lingua franca among Ashkenazi Jews. To a much lesser extent, the Judæo-French language Zarphatic and the Slavic-based Knaanic (Judæo-Czech) were also spoken. The Ashkenazi Jews developed a distinct culture and liturgy influenced, to varying degrees, by interaction with surrounding peoples, predominantly Germans, Austrians, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Kashubians, Hungarians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Belarusians, and Russians.
Although in the 11th century they comprised only 3% of the world's Jewish population, Ashkenazi Jews accounted for (at their highest) 92% of the world's Jews in 1931 and today make up approximately 80% of Jews worldwide.[3] Most Jewish communities with extended histories in Europe are Ashkenazim, with the exception of those associated with the Mediterranean region. The majority of the Jews who migrated from Europe to other continents in the past two centuries are Ashkenazim, Eastern Ashkenazim in particular. This is especially true in the United States, where 6 out of the 7 million American Jewish population -- the largest Jewish population in the world when consistent statistical parameters are employed[4] -- is Ashkenazi, representing the world's single largest concentration of Ashkenazim.
(source: wikipeida)

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:39:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you for this information but it looks like Ashkenazi Jews live mostly in USA and there for I understand how they are an "European cultural enclave" in USA (but not in Israel)...so to speak...
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 11:33:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The list of the companies (if not fake) that support Israeli government tells a lot to me...

The list is of foreign direct investment. It's not direct support for the government.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:02:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The list is of foreign direct investment. It's not direct support for the government.

Oh really? Again depends how you want to see it.Israel does not look like safe place to invest money amidst all those wars and potential wars...all tho the profit may be high...
Investing in Hitler's Germany was considered as support to Hitler (after the WWII) I can see analogy here...
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:41:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Israel does not look like safe place to invest money amidst all those wars and potential wars...

Huh, Israel is the local military hegemon (thanks in part but not exclusively - and maybe not even mainly - to all that US military aid).

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jan 10th, 2009 at 03:48:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Israel
Israel is one of the world's major exporters of military equipment, accounting for 10%[citation needed] of the world total in 2007.

War economy...great for investment!
by vbo on Sat Jan 10th, 2009 at 12:00:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, now it's clearer: it boils down to mere anti-semitism: "the Jews own the world"...

If you had took the time to look at the "Boycott Israel" list you mention (and which is hosted by a Islamist militant website...), you would have noticed that even this site says the companies they call to boycott are not targeted because they are owned by Jews, but "working with Israel".

So, that means you are using MoA and this campaign to promote your own prejudices...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 09:45:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And did you see that French idiot Kushner in UN laughing like a crazy...

Though I agree Kouchner's an idiot, I don't see the relevance of this to what you're saying. Unless you mean the French also own the world.

Oh, now I get it! He's Jewish!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:00:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do not know if Kouchner is Jewish or what but he is an idiot because he is laughing like an idiot while dieing children wait for him to help stop this genocide in UN.
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:08:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it's true that the French rule the world, but don't tell it aloud, nobody noticed yet...

<laughs sardonically>

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 11:00:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't see anything funny in your comment...
by vbo on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 11:26:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To make things clear, what I see happening in Gaza makes me sick, too. Furthermore, In my view, the State of Israel is committing war crimes and has been doing so for years.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 08:22:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Seconded.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:45:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thirded

...and I must say that I do have a bit of sympathy for vbo's point that Serbs have been lumped into a 'those people' category for which people feel they can categorically say 'they' did those things.

His other points need to be individually categorized for what they are, but I don't have the time to be sucked into them.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 12:18:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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