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Martin:
the necessity to value the German language higher is utterly important. Especially as a message of the base to the top of the party. And yes, as well towards the immigrants, who are crippling most of all their own chances when not accepting German as the prime language in Germany, but with that as well the rest of us.

I don't disagree on the surface. But, the way this is usually related to immigrants in conservative discourse is not of something to be offered to them (which would be sensible for something that, as you say, cripples their own chances; and indeed most immigrants do aspire to learn German all on their own), but something required from them, even as condition to get certain things. (I should also point out that concern for language protection can devolve much beyond simple language tests -- see my recent Slovakian-Hungarian frontpage story.)

I found it very interesting that you connected the base's vote to just what Sick criticised, the undermining of German by Germans themselves. Has such criticism of the party leaders been explicitely formulated at the party conference or before it?

At any rate, the Oettinger quote is a gem. Though, one that surprises me less --

If ever the working language in politics becomes English in Germany, we do have serious trouble

I think Oettinger didn't mean his own profession -- in fact, given the predilection of German politicians to dig up rare/old words and expressions and create new ones to pepper up their rhetoric, I am pretty sure he simply to forgot about his own profession. Rather, I think he was communicating views he got from his friends in big business. You know I am a leftie, but this time I'm bringing up "big business" not out of some anti-capitalist association, but purely out of personal observation: I'm all too aware of these views. (This is to be part of that Neudeutsch diary.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 04:14:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Some public institutions are very well disciples of Neudeutsch, e.g. universities. And when they haven't bought fully into it, they are critisised as not sufficiently international.
And there are daily issues; is it necessary to give a talk in English, when there is only one person, that doesn't speak German, despite living for 5 years already in Germany? Have post docs that can't speak German the same teaching duties as those, who can? And if they have not, why aren't they required to learn German in the time the others do their teaching duties?
And names of Institutions; why is the new facility of the Rechenzentrum called 'Steinbuch Centre for Computing' and not 'Steinbuch Zentrum für maschinelles Rechnen'?

I know of somebody who studied one year in Spain. They didn't even have web pages in English. Of course a German student, who wants to study in Spain, learns Spanish, a student who wants to study in France, learns French, a student who wants to study in Sweden, learns Swedish, and a student who wants to study in China, learns Chinese. Only the German universities 'lack internationality', when you can't get your diploma or master in English.
</whining>

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 11:08:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Some public institutions are very well disciples of Neudeutsch, e.g. universities.

Well, I have to rely on my ideology there: I think that is a consequence of market philosophy at universities.

...lots of things more or less agreed on...

Only the German universities 'lack internationality', when you can't get your diploma or master in English.

On that one, I have to disillusion you -- from what I know, this trend is pretty widespread. In Budapest, the technical university and the medical university have English courses, too. Well -- in fact, both have German courses, too -- I brought these up because once I travelled to Vienna with three girls from Bavaria who studied here -- and, at the same time, were hopeless Anglo-American fans.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 02:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In Italy, the University of Bolzano does a lot of its teaching in English. Of course, this is a special case, with English being sort of politically neutral, though students are expected to take courses in both German and Italian as well (they also have some limited support for Ladin).
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 06:22:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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