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But the things China has done to enforce that policy are... not pretty.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 05:53:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... what would have happened if they had not responded to the crisis created by Mao's pro-population-growth policies would have likely been even worse.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 02:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's almost certainly true. But in very few other areas are we willing to accept that it is ethical to apply that kind of pressure to people in order to avoid disasters that lie ten or twenty years down the road.

It presents ethical issues that are... not trivial.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 04:19:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And at the same time, it seems too few are willing to act on problems like that before things get so bad that they present ethical dilemmas.

Half measures and lip-service or, in the case of the US, a Mao-like headlong rush in the wrong direction, have likely taken the whole world past the point of avoiding big ethical dilemmas with the climate crisis.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 06:24:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You would be referring to the USA's GREAT FLOP BACKWARDS, begun under Reagan and still continuing, I presume.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 03:27:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... Backward under Bush and a Republican Congress, but the Great Flop Backward under Reagan and the Lesser Flopping Around Aimlessly under Bush-the-actually-elected and Clinton certainly contributed.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 04:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadly, only now is the cachet of neo-rhetroic beginning to wear a bit thin.  Where Clinton needed to go was directly into strong prevailing headwinds.  When the neos had 40% thoroughly convinced and another 15-20% cowed into silence it was hard to make headway.  You don't have to fool all of the people all of the time.  55% for 38 years did just fine until the bastards blew themselves up.  Else we would be looking towards a McCain Presidency.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 05:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... a certain extent ... refraining from hiring people who'd gained experience in the Carter administration left him with an awfully green krewe at first, and he could well have done much better in his first year. And "winning" a belt tightening budget and NAFTA helped make the Republican majority in the House larger than it otherwise would have been, without which it might not have lasted twelve years.

But what made 92-94 so pivotal is that it was basically the best chance to make gains against the run of play ... when the bad guys are mostly playing offense for all but two years of a quarter century, then on the one hand, it makes that any slips in that narrow opening critical, but on the other hand, the fact that the opening is so narrow shows what you're up against.

As LBJ said, the Civil Rights act meant the loss of the White House for a generation, except for the fluke of a wealthy third-party run at the White House ... but now that generation has passed.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 06:25:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but now that generation has passed.
And are we ever glad!  I don't care that so many of Obama'a appointments are from the Clinton Admin., so long as he can drive them leftward.  I do want the current ideology thoroughly discredited to the extent that 70-80% want to puke when they hear it.  The damage they have inflicted using that ideology needs to be clearly and thoroughly identified with the ends, means and morality of that whole movement.  Come the day!


As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:06:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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