My opinion of the UN is very low. I don't know if anybody in Iraq or Afghanistan cares if some current and former "superpowers" have agreed if it is legal to kill them. However, the "Governments" of these countries are not representative, not more than the commi gov of Afghanistan in the 80s, which took over Afghanistan against the will of the Soviet Union. Here I have already described my view on the situation of the Christians (people I called hundreds of times brothers and sisters) in Iraq and similar will be true for the Iraqi Turkmen. Do you really believe the Iraqi Gov will ask for help to prevent the ongoing genocide on these people? What even about the Sunnis? On what do you base your believe, that people will become less extremist and fundamentalist when the US leaves, former Yugoslavia doesn't seem to be a good example?
If the Iraq war was illegal and will in the end probably have cost more than 2 maybe more million lives, how credible is an alliance including the country which started this war anyhow to bring justice to others?
I can accept to stay in Afghanistan and go out of Iraq, but then I want to see justice for the killed in Iraq. A vast majority of US citizens supported the war in Iraq. The congress knew all important things which Bush knew, who never said Iraq had 9/11 involvement. So lifelong prison for all important members of the US Gov and all senators/representatives which ever voted to enable or finance the war (so about all but Ron Paul) would be the minimum. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
Re 9/11: Intel reports alleged that the 9/11 were hatched from Afghanistan/Pakistan; the beef of Bush was really the super 'Talibanisation' of Afghanistan whom he believed to had been harbouring Al Qaeda terrorists, etc.
Re: "but then I want to see justice for the killed in Iraq." I think we all do.
(OK gotta hit the sack -- just realised it's almost 2AM here, will get back to this tomorrow. Meanwhile, thanks for the input! Good night folks;)
And well, Afghanistan harboured planners of 9/11. I never denied that. But that doesn't justify ten thousend of killings.
Re: "but then I want to see justice for the killed in Iraq." I think we all do. Sure? Maybe you and maybe a majority of the people at eurotrib, but surely not the Americans, who voted for senators in the current primaries. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
Leaving Iraq now would give the neocons in the US the possebility to create a "Dolchstoßlegende", as they have already tried with Vietnam - and in case of Iraq they would have more chances to be successful.
Seeing as the Surge does not consist of a large enough force to be truely successful. I've thought that this was its main purpose. Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
The success of a creation of a legend could even work without that there would have been a real alternative, but would allow the neocons to go into another war in some years elsewhere. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
Very sad. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
Despite Germany had to accept conditionless surrender, in WW I there was never a fight on German soil. Basically after the US entered the war directly, Germany had no chance any more and all military historicans agree on that. But the groups who first surrendered were poitically very left. The Weimarer Republic was essentially founded by the SPD, the major German left wing party. As there was no war in Germany, the monarchists could keep the myth of the "Dolchstoßlegende" alive, that Germany could have won WW I, if the left groups would not have betrayed the country. This was a major burden for the new democracy and the SPD, which later lost a lot of voters to the Nazis who were allowed to reverse most of the burdens, which the SPD Gov accepted in the Versailler treaty. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
f I understand the 'doctrine' "Dolchstoßlegende" correctly, I believe that it will be used indeed by Bush and his neo-con supporters. There have been high-profile indications from Patraeus demand for more troops in Iraq to Gates' recent attacks on US NATO and EU allies.
